New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

I'm pretty much a top roper these days, not the rope gun, so I'm just looking at the whole face in front of me, and pondering what bits look like fun. Maybe it's a route, maybe it's 3 routes. Or the old trad line off to the side of the bolts that doesn't get climbed much. 

It's sneaking up on nice ish here, and starting to feel like some bouldering could be good! Gotta start lobbying the partners.

Hey, where's Carl???!? I heard there's a cyclone headed for Brisbane. Don't remember where you are, Carl, but hope things go okay for everyone, anyway. 

H.

Thanks for the update on the Verm.  

My only criticism of the “V” scale (other than the problems with any grading scale) is that John Sherman wanted V1 to be relatively difficult, around 5.10+.   Since most people starting out can’t climb nearly that hard of a problem, many gyms have really softened up the lower end of the V scale in order to make it more accessible.  I think there really needs to be a separate scale below V1.  There are a lot of potential separate bouldering grades between 5.0 and 5.10!

Ward Smithwrote:

Thanks for the update on the Verm.  

My only criticism of the “V” scale (other than the problems with any grading scale) is that John Sherman wanted V1 to be relatively difficult, around 5.10+.   Since most people starting out can’t climb nearly that hard of a problem, many gyms have really softened up the lower end of the V scale in order to make it more accessible.  I think there really needs to be a separate scale below V1.  There are a lot of potential separate bouldering grades between 5.0 and 5.10!

Well, now there is V0, and some gyms, and even a few outdoor areas, have VB, so that gives some 'coverage' for the lower grades--the level I boulder at!!!!

Ward Smithwrote:

Thanks for the update on the Verm.  

My only criticism of the “V” scale (other than the problems with any grading scale) is that John Sherman wanted V1 to be relatively difficult, around 5.10+.   Since most people starting out can’t climb nearly that hard of a problem, many gyms have really softened up the lower end of the V scale in order to make it more accessible.  I think there really needs to be a separate scale below V1.  There are a lot of potential separate bouldering grades between 5.0 and 5.10!

The old Hueco guide had V0 and V0+. I recall that we called Melon Patch V0-  

Frank Steinwrote:

The old Hueco guide had V0 and V0+. I recall that we called Melon Patch V0-  

Can V0- actually be a thing - or would it have to be V(-0)+? And what if somebody decides it needs downrating? I'm not going to get much sleep tonight! 

Ah Ignatius, climbing dropped adherence to mathematical logic long ago. Relax and live longer!

John Gillwrote:

No, but it worked for the very few of us who took bouldering seriously then. In the late 1950s when I was exploring ways to make bouldering a legitimate activity I first thought of a simple scale, B1, B2, B3, B4,... but decided that would immediately lead to number chasing, so I decided to try out a categorization approach rather than a scale. Short sighted of me. Sherman came along and corrected my mistake. 

Speaking of the Verm, he now lives in Kentucky and is engaged to a lady who lives on a horse farm. At age 66 (spring chicken to me) he has decided to leave Midnight Lightning behind after several good attempts, but hopes to get back into climbing soon, having had a health problem stemming from his pursuit of the sport. 

John Long on a fun dyno near Pueblo, CO 1970s

I have been to that area , all your areas were under the radar. 

John Gillwrote:

Back to climbing, I recently did a short interview for a writer concerning my old B-system and modern scales of difficulty. One of his questions was about the finer and finer subdivisions of the Yosemite decimal system (and others). 5.10a, 5.10b, 5.10c, and 5.10d . . . . . Really? I can recall trying to understand 5.9 vs 5.10 BITD.  What do those on this thread think?

For those that climb at their limit around 5.10, the 5.10.a,b,c,d actually feel different from each other. For those who climb much harder than 5.10, there may not be much of a noticeable difference.  That is why people who climb much harder than 5.10 probably shouldn't be grading 5.10 climbs because they can't objectively tell the difference between the letter grades. That is unless the stronger climber can put themselves in the shoes of a 5.10 climber, which might not be possible.

Kevinmurray: Can you name the boulder?    

In the interview I gave I mentioned how competitive gymnastics has changed. In the 1950s there were three difficulty levels, A, B, C. It seems like a cross and a front lever were rated B. Now they barely make the scale at A, while there now are A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I, and J. The shift also has been towards pure difficulty being prominent, while artistry is secondary. I saw a ring routine recently that simply had three or four Maltese crosses in a row. Quite a feat, but a bit boring to watch. The size of gymnasts has gone down. John Beckner was the top American male gymnast in the 1950s, and he was six feet tall. Now the men are down to 5'4" average or thereabouts. Over time, optimal size and proliferation of difficult moves seem to correlate.

However, the one former artistic event that most all around gymnasts hated, the rope climb, has been resurrected in Europe, and the American 20' climb record has not been exceeded since the 1950s when Don Perry flew up the rope in 2.8 seconds. New world records are for different length ropes.

Rope climbing may appear quite dull to a rock climbing audience, but it sure is a lot easier to grade. Like a hundred meter sprint going up. 

ca1963   You'll never guess where. Be specific.  

For myself climbing ratings are not so much about aspirational goals, but are more of a way to not get in over my head. It is important to me to understand exactly where I stand in relation to them because I often climb where falling is not an option and being damn sure of what you are capable of is everything.

I have long ago given up on any notion that mastery at rock climbing belongs only to those achieving the highest numbers. I find that by climbing with meticulous awareness, focusing on exercising good technique, having an intense sense of care and command of each situation, and demanding from myself continual concentration and insight, that mastery at rock climbing can be achieved at any level. 

Case in point was today’s little exploratory foray into one of Smith’s museum climbs, (old climbs that nobody does).

Here we are looking at the east face of the Christian Brothers, and today I took the red line in the photo. I had intended to take the bottom half of red and finish on blue which is called Rabbit Ears 5.9r and has had as far as I know one ascent 10 years ago. Starting on red and going up green for the second pitch is called Gothic Cathedral 5.8r and gets done once every 5 to 10 years. My error today was that instead of stepping left onto blue at the belay I climbed up red thinking I would step left by the roof between the blue and red lines a distance above the belay.

Turns out the corner below the roof is blank, no crack, not even an edge to pull on, with a very wide stem move to reach the opposite wall then I would have had to let go of the crack I was in, commit to some dubious face holds and bring my other foot over to be entirely on small face holds while looking at at least a sixty footer on a number three camelot behind an oatmeal flake some distance below. Being an exploratory foray, as long as we get up something it is a success, so since stepping over to green requires a bold face move on birdshit plastered crumbly rock, also with a potential death fall, I stick with red which at this point is an offwidth that would take #6 camalots but since I am traveling with what many would consider a diet rack, I have none so technique and composure is the  protection available, and if I had to rate it I would call it 5.9. The last pitch starts with back and foot chimneying until it widens up enough that you have to commit to one side or the other and face climb upward with zero protection and questionable rock thankfully only about 5.6.

So ratings are important, and when taken as the gospel, maybe even life saving. All of these climbs despite their r ratings really are X rated unless you carry a huge rack of big cams. With any of them you have to be sure of yourself or you have no business up there. They are not technically demanding in today’s sense of the word but they are far more mentally demanding than any of the bolted stuff of any grade that lies below them, and that is a challenge I appreciate.

Nice pleasant sesh at Urban Climb this morning. Start a new job after the weekend. Looking forward to Araps for a couple of weeks soon. It’s so dry at the moment.  No rain for ages. 

Flashed a Green! No beta!  

Immediately proclaimed it a Purple. 

https://youtu.be/_MqeK3y7o2U?si=xnmkRZbDFIt2iFia

Nice post, fossil. I get a lot of joy too in doing obscure and/or rarely repeated routes. The "numbers" that I enjoy most are the raw number of climbing routes I've done at a given area.

In that sense, I'd often rather do a low quality route that I have not done before than repeat a higher quality climb that I have done.

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Nice pleasant sesh at Urban Climb this morning. Start a new job after the weekend. Looking forward to Araps for a couple of weeks soon. It’s so dry at the moment.  No rain for ages. 

Flashed a Green! No beta!  

Immediately proclaimed it a Purple. 

https://youtu.be/_MqeK3y7o2U?si=xnmkRZbDFIt2iFia

Nice send!

There’s a 5.10d climb which is coincidentally also “purple” and a roof problem two clips long. Always fun getting on stuff like that  

Found Yoga! Going to try to do it every Thursday. 

Li Huwrote:

Nice send!

There’s a 5.10d climb which is coincidentally also “purple” and a roof problem two clips long. Always fun getting on stuff like that  

Found Yoga! Going to try to do it every Thursday. 

I really like roofs. It’s my thing 

Frank Steinwrote:

The old Hueco guide had V0 and V0+. I recall that we called Melon Patch V0-  

I was there in the 90’s when the Sherman guide that first used the “V” system came out.   We figured that V0- was anything 5.8 or easier (barely a rock climb, as Sherman said in one route description), V0 was 5.9 or 9+, and V0+ was solid 5.10.   I have used this system in the bouldering section of my Rumney guidebook, but most have unfortunately dropped it. 

Jay Goodwinwrote:

Ah Ignatius, climbing dropped adherence to mathematical logic long ago. Relax and live longer!

Rubbish! As everybody knows, our rating system over here in the UK is widely accepted as a paragon of logic.

And yes; I'm already very old.... 

John Gillwrote:

Can you name the boulder?    

Fatted Calf?

Fatted calf was my choice but it has been many years since i was there.

We got a dusting of snow last night on the hills out my back door.

Ignatius Piwrote:

Rubbish! As everybody knows, our rating system over here in the UK is widely accepted as a paragon of logic.

And yes; I'm already very old.... 

I actually never figured the trad system out. I got onto climbs that ranged from E7 HHVS or whatever, to E10 something something something.

YDS is more “linear” even if not a fully descriptive grade.

Bottom line, I looked up at the climb.