New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #33

Frank Stein wrote:

So, here is something tangentially related to climbing. The DOGE nerds walked into NOAA headquarters in Maryland this morning, and Musk is demanding that it be dismantled and shut down. Who needs weather forecasting, right? Especially since all private services use NOAA data. 

I wonder what will happen to all these government scientists? Would be totally hilarious if China hired them?   

John, what a fabulous story about the gymnastics.  Thanks for telling it!

Alan Rubin wrote:

John, I find it interesting when you say that the climbers of the '50s were "far behind...with regard to pure strength and athleticism". The '50s were before my time as a climber, but the impression I have goes even further---that things such as 'athleticism' and 'pure strength', let alone training for them,  were very much regarded as 'poor form' among the climbing establishment of the day. Climbing was considered to be a 'gentleman's sport' ( yes, almost invariably male back then) and gentlemen didn't train--especially in gyms. Since most climbers of the time were 'big mountain' oriented, running and hiking with big packs were ok, but never anything like a gym!!! There were exceptions of course, in addition to you, there were folks like Ray Northcutt in CO and Jim McCarthy in the Gunks ( plus Hans Kraus and Bonnie Prudden there too---though they were more focused on general fitness for everyone than on strength and athleticism for climbing), but the majority had a very different approach. Is this a correct image? It surely fits ( and is largely based upon) my memories of the attitudes of the '50s climbers' whom I encountered when I started in the middle of the following decade.

Alan, The "gentleman's sport" held sway up to the second half of the 19th century. By 1850 or so the British railway system was largely constructed, and by the 1880s university students and other youths could take trains to Wasdale and the Lake District over Easter holidays, and these excursions became settings for ropeless scrambling at first, then a local, Abraham Robinson, I think, brought a rope and the sport of rock climbing was born in England. From this beginning some of this first generation demonstrated great strength, with, for example, Oscar Eckenstein (the father of British bouldering) doing one arm pull-ups, and others climbing all over the interiors and exteriors of the buildings at Wasdale and the Y-boulder there. A similar scenario played out at Fontanebleau, and elsewhere on the Continent. 

I had only the slightest knowledge of rock climbing when I took the gymnastics course at Ga Tech in 1954, and the members of the team there appeared so much stronger and athletic than the few climbers I had met. I saw Azarian on a newsreel at a movie and was shocked at his abilities. And I began thinking of a possible special kind of rock climbing done on small outcrops and boulders as a kind of gymnastic event, with smoothness and polished performances. Also, as I've mentioned, I was anxious to become more manly, with gymnastics the key to athletic growth. 

However, it became clear that gymnastics was not climbing - except, perhaps, the rope climb. At Devils Lake in 1958 I was told by a fellow member of the U of Chi mountaineering club of a gymnast they recruited to try climbing. He was very strong, but could not adapt to rock climbing. Then they recruited a foreign student, a skinny tennis player, and he took to climbing like a fish to water. Nevertheless, I kept at gymnastics for a few more years, then opted out for the typical strength exercises which I still do, more or less. 

John, those are terrific photos! I was able to do the various crosses, but the hardest move for me to accomplish was one I saw a ring man do while practicing at the U of Chi gym, a member of the USA team for the Pan American games in 1959. The slow pull from a straight inverted hang straight up into a handstand - false grip of course. These days it's not considered that difficult. Coach Kreidler wanted to take a film bit of me doing a butterfly mount in an L, but after doing it several times I only got halfway up on film. Fun times. While there, Helmut Rohrl, a visiting mathematician, told me of his friend Hermann Buhl doing a one finger pull-up, and of course I then had to do that. 

Rich mentioned the Hard Men of the late 1940s and 1950s, mostly blue collar athletes who transformed the sport. We had our own, like Royal, who despite his aristocratic name came from humble origins and was a serious intellect. And Joe Brown, the greatest of that generation in the British Isles, completely severed the sport from the tight hold the professional class had exerted. Earlier, Eckenstein had excoriated the Alpine Club in the early 1900s for its stuffiness, antisemitism, and sense of superiority. I noticed the stuffiness when I joined the AAC in the 1960s. But it has changed.

Wasdale 1880s.

Kristian Solem wrote:

Nobody in the press corps is being banned from the Pentagon or having access limited, beyond what it already is for security. A limited number of physical offices, which have been occupied by the same three press agencies for decades, are now going to rotate on an annual basis.

For many decades, fox news channel  (aka faux spews propaganda) was played Non-stop 24 hrs per day on the only tv in many military places.

Lori Milas wrote:

 as Elon Musk was deputized to examine our government for efficiency, starting with the jobs of millions of federal employees. Threats to Canada and Mexico and China and all immigrants. The total abdication on climate change. And now Gaza. In just two weeks.   A friend of mine who works for the federal government received the letter from Elon advising her to resign now and take an undisclosed buyout or be forced to quit without any benefits. She’s also diabetic and feeling blindsided – – without a job or health insurance she could not afford insulin, etc. A Trump supporter wrote “it’s not personal, it’s business.”

1.  Musk and Trump have Zero interest in government efficiency.  Their goals are A. install loyal crooked cronies  and B.  destroy functional government.

Maybe an outside the box solution is required in Gaza? Nothing else has worked. 

2.  The solution is:  A 2 state solution.  Enforced by the US military and cancelling all aid to Zionists until something like the UN 1948 plan is enacted.

But it does seem that my party did not use the time wisely because we are absolutely left in the dust. 

3.  Correct, the Dems are only 1/10 as crooked and lying as the Repubs.

Coming up 

I would be interested in how the folks who voted for trump feel about  elon musk having a free reign to do whatever he wants with the country. how  do you feel about musk having control over your social security and having all your info? 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I would be interested in how the folks who voted for trump feel about  elon musk having a free reign to do whatever he wants with the country. how  do you feel about musk having control over your social security and having all your info? 

And as of yesterday, Medicare/Medicaid also, although DOGE claims to not have accessed PHI…yet. 

Frank Stein wrote:

And as of yesterday, Medicare/Medicaid also, although DOGE claims to not have accessed PHI…yet. 

I think it’s over. Once you have control of computers and code, network and satellites, currency and distribution nationwide…there is no counter measure. Those words “shock and awe” never made more sense. 

There is likely to be strong agreement among many in this group that there is an unusual level of destruction occurring right now in this country’s institutions, rule of law, and general sense of purpose in this world. Wrong as this may be, it has occurred because the fundamental democratic process worked as it was designed last November (as it did in 2020, and through most of modern history). A slight majority of Americans voted for this kind of ‘leadership’, and now they are receiving what they voted for.

The only way to change this is at the ballot box- last November’s election was the Democrats’ to lose, and they did a masterful job of that, losing to one of the most toxic candidates this country has ever seen. The DNC put forward two (two!) candidates with remarkably low approval ratings, and relied on a platform of anti-Trump, and the hope that abortion rights would carry as much weight as the previous mid-terms. All the while, not addressing the real issues like the economy, immigration, crime (to whatever degree these were actual problems isn’t particularly politically relevant), and seemingly standing by cultural positions (i.e. DEI) that were unpopular with both parties. This should have been a slam dunk for the Democratic Party, and they pissed it away. This country is going to pay the price for this shitshow the Dems created, and it’s going to be a long, painful four years. Dems need to come up with a much more functional strategy to resist this downslide than they used during Trump’s first term, and put forward quality candidates that actually appeal to Americans who are going to be deeply harmed by Republican policies.

I'm still a little overcome by yesterday's climb on Black Ice.  Looked it up... this is a better picture than I will ever get.  (Pic Craig Kaine)

I call it Wizardry.     Jedi Magic

Things suddenly changed last week from legs and feet to 'fingers'.  Yesterday on Black Ice it was all about shifting my attention to my fingers and whatever weight they can offset.  If you can find any kind of place for a finger and grip for all you're worth, you won't fall off the route.  And so now upper body strength comes into play and I'm trying to catch up.  

But it's more than that.  This kind of climbing is largely about "belief" and trust.  Because there's no way this makes any kind of sense.  So how far, how steep can we take this?  

Sometimes a word from another climber just sticks.  Back a ways when Jan said "Just bear down like a mother, and don't let go." (along those lines.   )  

(Witnessing the chopped bolts on this route tells its own kind of history.)

----  

Speaking of Jan... I was reminded yesterday of the visit I received from Dave Houser (one of Jan's partners bitd).  After stalking him for several years, Dave and his lovely wife stopped by.

"Meeting Dave Houser was such an exciting day for me. I had adopted Dave as my personal hero for all the incredible routes he put up in Joshua Tree in the 1970s. I made it my mission to climb them all – – there’s still six or seven I haven’t done. But no one had seen Dave in 20 years or more and no one knew what had become of him. So here he is at my front door. Tony made Dave and his wife pulled pork sandwiches and we got to spend about five hours talking about everything, most especially the back stories of some of his most popular routes—Run For Your Life, EBGB’s, CS Special, Loose Lady etc. " 

History.    

apogee wrote:

There is likely to be strong agreement among many in this group that there is an unusual level of destruction occurring right now in this country’s institutions, rule of law, and general sense of purpose in this world. Wrong as this may be, it has occurred because the fundamental democratic process worked as it was designed last November (as it did in 2020, and through most of modern history). A slight majority of Americans voted for this kind of ‘leadership’, and now they are receiving what they voted for.

The only way to change this is at the ballot box- last November’s election was the Democrats’ to lose, and they did a masterful job of that, losing to one of the most toxic candidates this country has ever seen. The DNC put forward two (two!) candidates with remarkably low approval ratings, and relied on a platform of anti-Trump, and the hope that abortion rights would carry as much weight as the previous mid-terms. All the while, not addressing the real issues like the economy, immigration, crime (to whatever degree these were actual problems isn’t particularly politically relevant), and seemingly standing by cultural positions (i.e. DEI) that were unpopular with both parties. This should have been a slam dunk for the Democratic Party, and they pissed it away. This country is going to pay the price for this shitshow the Dems created, and it’s going to be a long, painful four years. Dems need to come up with a much more functional strategy to resist this downslide than they used during Trump’s first term, and put forward quality candidates that actually appeal to Americans who are going to be deeply harmed by Republican policies.

No one voted for Elon Musk to take over large swaths of the federal government. It wasn't on any ones radar because it wasn't something Trump ran on and violates multiple laws. I do agree Dems suffered from a lack of imagination as to what might happen but your claim that Dems created this shitshow is telling. It absolves Trump. the institutional Republican party and Republican voters from any agency.

I sort of agree with both apogee and Emil. Trump vehemently denied that he was going to implement Project 2025 and people who believed all his other lies fell for that one too. 

wendy weiss wrote:

Trump vehemently denied that he was going to implement Project 2025 and people who believed all his other lies fell for that one too. 

Where can I get a refund for my vote? Guy assured Lori that Trump had nothing to do with Project 2025 and that it was much to do about nothing. Silly me. 

I like the history and pictures here and skip over the politics.
Happy to again live someplace that has a bookstore with a coffee shop. And the bookstore has an AK section. Stoked. Just bought this. Books about the exploits of climbers from days gone by somehow give me strength to suck it up and deal with the present day…

My thumb is accidentally over the author, Barbara Washburn

Trump lied?

Shocking.

Todd Berlier wrote:

Been consistently climbing 3 days a week, lifting 2 and running 3 to 4. Cut sugar waaaaay down, veggies and protein intake up.

Nothing harder than v5, but feeling good.

Lifting consists of squats, overhead press, bicep curls, lateral raises, tricep thingies and flys. Also situps.

Elbow feeling better, maybe 75%.

Lost 8lbs. Wanna cut 8 more. Aiming for 145.

15 to 20 miles running. 

Hope is to slowly come back to full strength in the fall.

Obviously not of separate days unless Mr T has implemented a nine day week.  Todd what days do you do what? Do you lift of the days you climb? I’ve started to do that, lift after climbing at the gym, as it’s all there and accessible;  just pull downs, triceps extensions, very light barbell presses and sometimes random things like shrugs, chin-ups, kettlebell swings etc. I’m feeling better for it and looking ‘fuller’. 

wendy weiss wrote:

I sort of agree with both apogee and Emil. Trump vehemently denied that he was going to implement Project 2025 and people who believed all his other lies fell for that one too. 

Nobody fell for his lies, Biden’s war tipped the scales. Harris didn’t really lose by much.

There’s going to be backlash to every action they take, and I don’t think the USA will ever recover the way these folks think it will?

Li Hu wrote:

Nobody fell for his lies, Biden’s war tipped the scales. Harris didn’t really lose by much.

There’s going to be backlash to every action they take, and I don’t think the USA will ever recover the way these folks think it will?

"Biden's war"? What war is that? Ukraine? That's Putin's war--and his alone. Gaza? That is a war started by Hamas and, as they fully anticipated, expanded to a maximum level by Netanyahu and company. "Biden's war'=nonsense!!!!
The election and it's disastrous consequences, was largely the result of economic and 'socio-economic' circumstances, that have been developing over a long period of time--through several Presidencies, resulting in the, inevitable end of US predominance ( too many other emerging centers of power wanting their 'share of the pie' and increasingly able to take it), exacerbated by the effects of the COVID pandemic. The impact of the 'media revolution' and the consequent severe erosion of truth, fact, reality and functional political discourse also has played a significant role in our present predicament. Sure, Biden was far from ideal as President, and the Democrats have make their share of mistakes, including as Apogee describes, a too often extreme stance on DEI issues, but I don't think any President, from either party, would have been able to successfully cope with all these challenges in the current atmosphere. Trump will be no more successful at addressing, let alone reversing these overall trends, but will continue to significantly erode, if not outright destroy, what is left of our democratic institutions and sense ( however fragile it was) of true national unity.

Alan Rubin wrote:

"Biden's war"? What war is that? Ukraine? That's Putin's war--and his alone. Gaza? That is a war started by Hamas and, as they fully anticipated, expanded to a maximum level by Netanyahu and company. "Biden's war'=nonsense!!!!
The election and it's disastrous consequences, was largely the result of economic and 'socio-economic' circumstances, that have been developing over a long period of time--through several Presidencies, resulting in the, inevitable end of US predominance ( too many other emerging centers of power wanting their 'share of the pie' and increasingly able to take it), exacerbated by the effects of the COVID pandemic. The impact of the 'media revolution' and the consequent severe erosion of truth, fact, reality and functional political discourse also has played a significant role in our present predicament. Sure, Biden was far from ideal as President, and the Democrats have make their share of mistakes, including as Apogee describes, a too often extreme stance on DEI issues, but I don't think any President, from either party, would have been able to successfully cope with all these challenges in the current atmosphere. Trump will be no more successful at addressing, let alone reversing these overall trends, but will continue to significantly erode, if not outright destroy, what is left of our democratic institutions and sense ( however fragile it was) of true national unity.

Alan I agree with much of this but want to focus on a specific issue that is driving much of it. Namely extreme concentrations of wealth. They're poison to a democracy and levels in the US are at mind blowing levels right now.  You know things are badly broken when someone like Musk could give each member of the Senate a billion dollars and still be the richest man in the world.