New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #33

Emil Briggs wrote:

I've seen a younger (and very talented) climber at one of my favorite outdoor bouldering areas do the run and jump on a classic problem and completely break the normal beta. . . .

This is me leaping from the North to South Summit block of Chimney Rock at Joshua Tree BITD (early 80’s). 

I was a sprinter and long jumper in High School with springy legs. When I was in college, I spent the summers living in Yosemite Valley and enjoyed talus running on the expansive, stable fields of granite blocks below the Three Brothers and El Cap, which helped me develop kinesthetic awareness.

Doug Robinson described talus running like this: “…by the time you actually start running, speed and confidence will accelerate you like a hydrofoil coming up on the wing, until you're running along the tops of the blocks. Or, in really big talus — car-sized-blocks- you can end up ricocheting off a sequence of facing friction slabs in a sinuous dynamic, scribing an energy arc that is always leaning forward by tilting sideways.”

In 1980 I did a first ascent at JTree with Charles Cole of a route named Mission Impossible  with a parkour-style run and jump to the first knob. It’s about J4 on the Joshua Tree run and jump boulder rating system of J1 to J5, J5 being the toughest.

I used to love leaping around from boulder to boulder on the jumbled approaches so common at JTree, but as I got older and went through some back issues I quit jumping and focused on self preservation.

Does anyone have any footage of John Bachar climbing?

I was thinking about something attributed to John along the lines of wanting to have “more than enough” strength to tackle whatever route he is on.  I’ve seen a few short clips of him on rock, and he looked so solid and smooth – – effortlessly precise and more than capable of handling the physical challenge.  I scanned YouTube last night and found very little actual footage. There must be more.

I have focused so much on “technique“, on learning to read a route, how to maneuver over whatever is called for. Now I am seeing that technique only takes you so far. I’m newly all in with developing more strength and endurance—even though the gym is not my favorite place to be. I mean, what would it be like if I wasn’t fighting for the strength to pull up on that thin edge or do the next mantle?

this year I have climbed a variety of 5.5 to 5.9 – – to Alan’s point— but just observing the 10a that I was on a few days ago, the buck stops right there without more strength.  I’m going to get after it.   

—

So… NPR, PBS, the New York Times and NBC have now been banned from the Pentagon to be replaced with Breitbart, the NY POST and OAN.  Does this sit well with you?

Post 2020 music—Billy Strings and K Pop (a guilty pleasure)  

Erika… thank you.  That was it.  Steve Price. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Does anyone have any footage of John Bachar climbing?

Oh wow! Brian.. THANK YOU so much! What a treasury! Those videos are everything I was looking for.

I know that John worked for Bob for a short while and I get a kick out of picturing what might’ve happened had he been my guide for a day.  Oh my God… He would have either been bored or frustrated out of his mind.   He might have hoisted me up some 5.10 route and left me dangling while he played his sax.

Love the footage of John Gill.    

Related to J Tree History... there is a crag called Johnny Lang Crags.  It's a 2.5 mile difficult hike to get there.  I'm wondering who it was named after?  

It’s hard to imagine that anyone who works for the Pentagon/DoD with their own ideology and world view would be dramatically swayed one way or the other by a particular media source that is present in their workplace. As usual, people will seek the information sources that support their beliefs, even at the Pentagon.

Brian in SLC wrote:

Good Morning MIdnight:  Life and Death in the Wild.

AAC book review

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Waterman

Thanks for mentioning that book, I bought a copy for my husband (I'll read it too).  I remember that thread about Johnny on Supertopo, where I related a couple of my husband's fond recollections of Johnny from the late 70s when they both overlapped while living in Fairbanks. His first time meeting Johnny was at a slide show Johnny did, where as part of the presentation he took off his shirt and did handstands. The local crowd was not amused.  For a long time now we have had colorful characters like "The two blondes" and Timmy O'Neill and Sean Villanueva O'Driscoll giving slide shoes so we enjoy the entertainment aspect.  But I think at that time, the expectation was more that slide shows were serious talks given by serious climbers. I remember sneaking out of an early 80s slide show - impressive but deadly serious - by Reinhold Messner after about 2 hours because at that point, you know, enough was enough.

For a time after he moved to Fairbanks my husband lived (crashed) at the Alaska Mountaineering Club's house. Apparently Johnny was persona non grata there. He was not well liked by the establishment mountaineers. I asked why not, and by way of explanation, he said, "well these were all guys in plaid shirts".  (When you have been married to someone a long time, you understand what people are saying even when they only say a few words.)

Taking off his shirt seemed to be a thing for Johnny.  Michael said that the times he and Johnny would go out to bars together, Johnny would take off his shirt and dance by himself. There seems to be a great likelihood that he had some kind of untreated psychological problems - it's sad that he died so young.

On the topic of slide shows - are they obsolete?  With you tube and instagram and that climbing film series, the live slide show seems to be a less frequent phenomenon - or maybe I just don't notice them because I don't pay attention to a lot of media.

Bishop Climber's Coalition is asking for people to suggest speakers for their limited series of slide shows.  John Gill, do you travel anymore? Do you give slide shows? You'd be a great speaker for them - in the area of the Buttermilks, The Happy's, The Sad's...

Nobody in the press corps is being banned from the Pentagon or having access limited, beyond what it already is for security. A limited number of physical offices, which have been occupied by the same three press agencies for decades, are now going to rotate on an annual basis.

phylp phylp wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Waterman

Thanks for mentioning that book, I bought a copy for my husband (I'll read it too).  I remember that thread about Johnny on Supertopo, where I related a couple of my husband's fond recollections of Johnny from the late 70s when they both overlapped while living in Fairbanks. His first time meeting Johnny was at a slide show Johnny did, where as part of the presentation he took off his shirt and did handstands. The local crowd was not amused.  For a long time now we have had colorful characters like "The two blondes" and Timmy O'Neill and Sean Villanueva O'Driscoll giving slide shoes so we enjoy the entertainment aspect.  But I think at that time, the expectation was more that slide shows were serious talks given by serious climbers. I remember sneaking out of an early 80s slide show - impressive but deadly serious - by Reinhold Messner after about 2 hours because at that point, you know, enough was enough.

For a time after he moved to Fairbanks my husband lived (crashed) at the Alaska Mountaineering Club's house. Apparently Johnny was persona non grata there. He was not well liked by the establishment mountaineers. I asked why not, and by way of explanation, he said, "well these were all guys in plaid shirts".  (When you have been married to someone a long time, you understand what people are saying even when they only say a few words.)

Taking off his shirt seemed to be a thing for Johnny.  Michael said that the times he and Johnny would go out to bars together, Johnny would take off his shirt and dance by himself. There seems to be a great likelihood that he had some kind of untreated psychological problems - it's sad that he died so young.

On the topic of slide shows - are they obsolete?  With you tube and instagram and that climbing film series, the live slide show seems to be a less frequent phenomenon - or maybe I just don't notice them because I don't pay attention to a lot of media.

Bishop Climber's Coalition is asking for people to suggest speakers for their limited series of slide shows.  John Gill, do you travel anymore? Do you give slide shows? You'd be a great speaker for them - in the area of the Buttermilks, The Happy's, The Sad's...

Phylp, I don't want to repeat the entire ( sadly now erased) Taco thread about Johnny, but to say that he had "some kind of untreated psychological problems" is a major understatement. He suffered from a serious mental disease, highly likely inherited. He had been hospitalized at the Alaska Pyschiatric Hospital not long before his final trip to Denali. Unfortunately, certain mental diseases are not very susceptible to treatment, and more so back then, and the treatments often have significant side effects.
There is another concurrent thread on here about climbing and mental illness. While I have no idea if there is a higher incidence of mental illness ( and substance abuse) among climbers than the general population ( as that thread 'asks'), I do know that Johnny was one climber who did suffer from such an illness, and he is far from the only one. One of the tragic aspects of his story is that many climbers considered his behavior to be merely 'eccentric',  and did nothing to prevent him from heading towards Denali that day with clearly inadequate equipment and skiing straight into a crevasse field. Probably intervention wouldn't have been successful, but it seems that no one tried.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Phylp, I don't want to repeat the entire ( sadly now erased) Taco thread about Johnny, but to say that he had "some kind of untreated psychological problems" is a major understatement. He suffered from a serious mental disease, highly likely inherited. He had been hospitalized at the Alaska Pyschiatric Hospital not long before his final trip to Denali. Unfortunately, certain mental diseases are not very susceptible to treatment, and more so back then, and the treatments often have significant side effects.
There is another concurrent thread on here about climbing and mental illness. While I have no idea if there is a higher incidence of mental illness ( and substance abuse) among climbers than the general population ( as that thread 'asks'), I do know that Johnny was one climber who did suffer from such an illness, and he is far from the only one. One of the tragic aspects of his story is that many climbers considered his behavior to be merely 'eccentric',  and did nothing to prevent him from heading towards Denali that day with clearly inadequate equipment and skiing straight into a crevasse field. Probably intervention wouldn't have been successful, but it seems that no one tried.

Somewhere perhaps on the taco, there is the story of the last two folks who were in camp watch JW “walk off onto the ice” 

John Waterman's 145 day trip to solo traverse Mt Hunter, in 1978, was off the charts!!!

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/12197909100/Mount-Hunter-Traversed-Solo

Alan Rubin wrote:

Phylp, I don't want to repeat the entire ( sadly now erased) Taco thread about Johnny,.....

Here's a single post I copied to my "email archives" from the now missing "Johnny Waterman Appreciation thread":

Happy Cowboy

Social climber

Boz MT

 Apr 1, 2016 - 12:21pm PT Aya, this cracks a can of very squirmy worms for me. Since seeing Alpinist awhile back I've written and wadded a 100 pages of thought on J. I'm the tall one Johnny's leaning into the morning I got flown out by legendary pilot Don Sheldon. Johnny, Dave and Dean had the chance to cram into his Cessna the previous afternoon, leaving me alone with the last of our gear and a fresh reminder of Johnny's madness. A big lump on the side of my skull where he had thrown a can of frozen Cambell's Tomato. Lucky I had my thick wool Touck on....and not my only memory of Johnny hurling something at me. And permit me to add that I was quite close to J at the time, talk about counter culture of the era. I was the youngest on that 73' Hunter South face/ridge trip at 19 yrs, and Dean's efforts had assembled a postcard expedition. I was from the backwash of Utah's Watach, stuck between Californicate and Cockarado in my mind. I picked Carmen up in Jackson at his brother's Pete, already a good friend of mine and godsend as far as I was concerned. A Harvard Mountaineer's influential presence in my playground, the Tetons. Dave hopped in my little green Datsun PU and we drove to Seattle for Johnny. We instantly hit it off as the 2 youngest, J a year older than I. We both wore glasses as awkward school kids not to mention the trouble it presented to aspiring alpinists, and both veterans of Denali. I was a bit rebel, proud of my rank earned during the Teton Cold War, Field Marshall of the ALA (Alpine Liberation Army, little known guerrilla movement ) the venerable Col. Reefer.

I think the first glimpse I got of J's madness was when at a shop Swallow where we were having some mitten covers sewn. A stately father figure happened in who J an I both knew, Warren Blesser(sp?). He asked about our intentions, wished the best, then after a moment looked his good friend J in the eyes and spit out "you need to call Niels (Andeson) now, before you leave" sternly spoken. That evening Johnny got my parents phone# in SLC so he could call collect to Niels in Canada. J was squirming during the call, he'd been "care taking" Niels BC apartment the previous 6 weeks. Niels had retuned to a throughly trashed place and no Johnny. J was solemn when he passed the phone to me to say hi to my friend Niels. He lamented the standard, jezyouluckyjerks, have a great time, make it home safe. The next pierced my amour (an aspiring Conquestadore of the Useless, not the first, but I could feel the pain, "I mean you, I' d be better off not seeing J again" then hung up.

Believe me this is the feeling of worms in my veins to this day....did we give up on Johnny or he on us (us, sadly is humanity in my mind). I believe Johnny had a habit of irresponsibly abusing his closest friends, my side swiped Datsun w' J behind the wheel, the only new vehicle I've ever owned (72' bought for $2099.00 off the lot) was my early taste, and if so inclined to even bring it up, he'd hurl a pot full of cocoa at you and precious down gear, stuck in a snow cave at 11'000'. He was volatile, but a great friend between outbursts. The real problems didn't hit home till you realized he was nearly as irresponsible in climbing w' partners as that with simple possessions. I remember J an I facing what would be the crux on Hunter's South face. My lead, beautifull yellow Alaskan granite, parallel 1-2" ice-filled cracks a few feet apart. I slowly worked my way up the nearest, often just getting 1 frontpoint of my black 1st generation Chouinard cramps in the iron hard ice. A couple aid moves and 25' up I pick out a hole then whale in an angle pin to it's hilt, and start a delicate traverse left to the next crack which my axe pick can barely reach. Left foot finds a nubbin to shift onto from from which I can now slam an arrow home. I clip then during the tricky foot swap, snap, a point promptly breaks off...crampon point dangling but connected by strap. Short whip now over to the 2nd crack. "Damn Johnny, cramps broke, you gotta take over". We swap and he completes the pitch with more of the same, in the building wind and spindrift, then stuffs himself in a corner he calls a belay. By now I'm frozen, anxious to move and equally agreeable to a little T when removing gear. Pretty hard for us then we thought 5.8-9 A2. I reach J, now used to feel of a dangling point, an look above at slightly easier ground leading to what looks to be the best ledge yet in the near 20 pitches up to this point (we fixed lines, it's own saga using 1/4" blue waterski rope. Johnny hands me the rack and I contemplate the next moves. Then my gut remembers, "hey, you got an anchor, right". "No, but I'm good", but which I was not. I look around not much and ask him to shift. Behind his butt a clean 1/4" crack that eats an arrow. As I later read in the Alpinist article (43 years later)a god, Henry B mentioned how he an J would climb past pro in the Gunks, impressive. My own mentor from Salt Lick City, GDL, had impressed in me, "pros pro, but anchors are about living", thanks George.

I'll post a pic of this pitch I speak of as soon as I scan from Kodak, also a boat load of memories from the upper corniced ridge.......I am the Happy Cowboy. Best                       

phylp phylp wrote:

 . . . . Bishop Climber's Coalition is asking for people to suggest speakers for their limited series of slide shows.  John Gill, do you travel anymore? Do you give slide shows? You'd be a great speaker for them - in the area of the Buttermilks, The Happy's, The Sad's...

Medical issues keep me from traveling. Your question about slide shows brought back a memory of giving one in Aspen maybe twenty years ago. A friend had asked me to make a presentation and I agreed. Shortly before it was scheduled to begin we learned that the Aspen Institute had arranged for another talk that evening, Ken Burns and his latest film. I suggested we cancel so that everyone could go to the Burn's affair, but it was too late. Nevertheless, the room was full . . . which gave me mixed feelings. 

I was visiting with friends in Bishop in 2002 when Reardon showed up unexpectedly with his recording devises to take a little footage (that went into his Bachar film). The only other time I spoke with Bachar was when I visited him in his Mammoth store a couple of years later. He wanted to give me a pair of climbing shoes, but we couldn't find a fit.  

I’m still doing a lot of indoor bouldering. This particular boulder in the video had me stumped at the last hold for weeks. I just could not commit. With my bad knees I don’t like falling. I also sent another problem of the same grade where I’d also shied away from the last hold. I had a spotter so felt more confident. Then once I’d sent that one I felt emboldened to try this one. As you can see, it’s quite long and pumpy.

https://youtube.com/shorts/mVxPl3nsN_0?si=xoBHcbPouiA-mLne

Looks fun Carl.  I’m doing a lot of indoor bouldering as well, but I never think of taking a video.  Might be something to try.

John Gill wrote:

Medical issues keep me from traveling. Your question about slide shows brought back a memory of giving one in Aspen maybe twenty years ago. A friend had asked me to make a presentation and I agreed. Shortly before it was scheduled to begin we learned that the Aspen Institute had arranged for another talk that evening, Ken Burns and his latest film. I suggested we cancel so that everyone could go to the Burn's affair, but it was too late. Nevertheless, the room was full . . . which gave me mixed feelings. 

I was visiting with friends in Bishop in 2002 when Reardon showed up unexpectedly with his recording devises to take a little footage (that went into his Bachar film). The only other time I spoke with Bachar was when I visited him in his Mammoth store a couple of years later. He wanted to give me a pair of climbing shoes, but we couldn't find a fit.  

John, Pat Ament gave a slide show with you in attendance at the Cobbler Mountain shop in Colorado Springs in 1977 that I attended when a drunk from the bar down the alley, who was pissing on the side of the building and removed by one of the owners came back with a rifle and put 5 rounds in the back door. It only took you a minute to leave by the front door. Since you mentioned memory lane. I was the one who opened the door and saw the rifle barrel and slammed it quickly. 

Kevinmurray wrote:

John, Pat Ament gave a slide show with you in attendance at the Cobbler Mountain shop in Colorado Springs in 1977 that I attended when a drunk from the bar down the alley, who was pissing on the side of the building and removed by one of the owners came back with a rifle and put 5 rounds in the back door. It only took you a minute to leave by the front door. Since you mentioned memory lane. I was the one who opened the door and saw the rifle barrel and slammed it quickly. 

I had forgotten that incident. Yes, my wife at the time, Dorothy, and I quickly left the premises. .22 wasn't it? Steve Cheyney's shop. Wonder if Steve is still with us?

Edit:

Lori, you asked about my role models some time back. Here was the man I most admired, for he demonstrated how far behind the climbers of the 1950s were with regard to pure strength and athleticism. Of course, ring men today have gone far beyond Azarian's feats.

Ward Smith wrote:

Looks fun Carl.  I’m doing a lot of indoor bouldering as well, but I never think of taking a video.  Might be something to try.

It’s good to analyse your climbing. 

John Gill wrote:

I had forgotten that incident. Yes, my wife at the time, Dorothy, and I quickly left the premises. .22 wasn't it? Steve Cheyney's shop. Wonder if Steve is still with us?

Edit:

Lori, you asked about my role models some time back. Here was the man I most admired, for he demonstrated how far behind the climbers of the 1950s were with regard to pure strength and athleticism. Of course, ring men today have gone far beyond Azarian's feats.

John, I find it interesting when you say that the climbers of the '50s were "far behind...with regard to pure strength and athleticism". The '50s were before my time as a climber, but the impression I have goes even further---that things such as 'athleticism' and 'pure strength', let alone training for them,  were very much regarded as 'poor form' among the climbing establishment of the day. Climbing was considered to be a 'gentleman's sport' ( yes, almost invariably male back then) and gentlemen didn't train--especially in gyms. Since most climbers of the time were 'big mountain' oriented, running and hiking with big packs were ok, but never anything like a gym!!! There were exceptions of course, in addition to you, there were folks like Ray Northcutt in CO and Jim McCarthy in the Gunks ( plus Hans Kraus and Bonnie Prudden there too---though they were more focused on general fitness for everyone than on strength and athleticism for climbing), but the majority had a very different approach. Is this a correct image? It surely fits ( and is largely based upon) my memories of the attitudes of the '50s climbers' whom I encountered when I started in the middle of the following decade.

On a totally different topic. I have been trying very hard recently to avoid discussing politics on this thread, but I can't resist this morning---after our 'Dear Leader's' statement yesterday that he wants to 'take over' the Gaza Strip and turn it into "the Riviera" of the Middle East ( his wording). Putting aside the extremely dangerous and ignorant macho stupidity of that proposal ( and much of the rest of his foreign policy), is there any doubt that his real goal is a future Trump resort, complete with watered 18 hole golf course, there---of course, with no wind turbines, solar panels, or any 'pesky Gazans'. 

is there any doubt that his real goal is a future Trump resort, complete with watered 18 hole golf course, there---of course, with no wind turbines, solar panels, or any 'pesky Gazans'.

No doubt at all. 

Trumps words are just a distraction to Musk taking over the inner workings of government with AI powered techno-fascism.