El cap, getting down from the Nose in the next few weeks (weather depending)

Wait. Your first wall? The Nose? In winter? And you're practicing jugging?

What could possibly go wrong?

Marc801 C wrote:

Wait. Your first wall? The Nose? In winter? And you're practicing jugging?

What could possibly go wrong?

Trools are a part of this format.  

McKinley Thompson wrote:

Trools are a part of this format.  

Not trolling.

http://www.supertopo.com/a/Road-to-The-Nose-Checklist-of-Learning-to-Aid/a10533n.html

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106706072/the-road-to-the-nose

http://www.supertopo.com/packs/road2nose.html

Marc801 C wrote:

Wait. Your first wall? The Nose? In winter? And you're practicing jugging?

What could possibly go wrong?

Counterpoint: that route is unusually easy to retreat from and, in the winter, you're less likely to cause a traffic jam. Most teams, with a little honest self assessment, figure out relatively early on whether they're on pace to top out and, if not, bail. This isn't a cool strategy if other teams spend hours waiting just for you to confirm the already known fact that you're not prepared. On the other hand if the entire wall is empty, it seems like a safe enough way for people with basic multi pitch competence to take a crack at an ambitious goal.

Yellow rubber cleaning gloves. Trust me. It’ll keep your armpit becoming icy cold and wet. 

  publications.americanalpine…

McKinley Thompson wrote:

Very good points.  I"m not so concerned about jugging, been practicing a lot.  More thinking about weather and cold am temps while belaying.  Also the 9mi walk off to Yose falls could be snowy or icy.  Ideally I'd be doing this in the Spring but my partners busy then.  Yes, lowering out haul bags, will work on that.

Thx,

Max

It’s not lowering out the bags you need to practice but how to ride the pigs on rappel……

for gloves get the showa temres 282-02

Eric Craig wrote:

No more bonkers than people suggesting a double carry to the raps. After topping out from a multi day ascent of the Nose (Salathe, 3D, Lurking Fear or any relatively trade route not REQUIRING portaledges) your total weight of everything should be under 50#. If it isn't,  in my opinion you're taking TOO much shit.

If you aren't particularly experienced and topped out after 4 or so days, maybe ran out of food because you spent more days than intended because you were slow and daylight was short, and now you are really spent, the longer walk could be a really fucking smart way to go.

Sorry I don't remember the exact elapsed time or mileage. I never was a beta whore. And it all worked, no big deal. 

Out of all my various descents from the top El Cap the only 'beta' specific detail I recall is once descending the East Ledges route with a SINGLE 150 FOOT rope, and using it doubled for one rappel. Wasn't a problem. 

Since I don't remember much else, pretty sure I never had a problem.  They all work. 

I only said to double carry if you have big loads.  The times I have double carried to the raps we had ledges and iron and had been on the wall for a week.  For a route like the nose or lurking fear hopefully you can do it in a single carry but if the east ledges are slick I wouldn't want to do them with a big pig on my back.  The section from the top of the zodiac to the raps is pretty scrambly and a slip with even a medium sized bag would be nasty.  The other part that doesn't make sense is that the op wants to do the nose in winter anyway.  It's not the best route to do if there is any chance of a storm.  The whole upper 10 pitches of the nose is pretty wet in a storm.  A much better choice for a winter ascent would be the zodiac or Virginia/Trip since they are much steeper and more protected from a storm.  I still stand by the assertion that the hike sucks even when it's dry but I'm sure it will go even if it takes twice as long as the east ledges. (which it did in my experience)

Dan Mydans wrote:

It's not the best route to do if there is any chance of a storm.  The whole upper 10 pitches of the nose is pretty wet in a storm.  A much better choice for a winter ascent would be the zodiac or Virginia/Trip since they are much steeper and more protected from a storm.

Those routes represent a significant step up for a team that has no wall experience and might be out of reach even if they are better objectives for the season. Good thought though, and potentially helpful insight for other teams

OP, we're all rooting for you. I think I speak for everyone when I say I hope you return to this thread with a trip report! Good luck. 

My two pieces of advice are: 1. always stay moving, there's lots to do and each partner should just keep plugging away throughout the day without stopping unless you are intentionally stopping to rest of eat/drink. For example: stand high in the ladders to plug the next piexe and clip your ladders. At that point, don't just stand around taking your time to get into the pool, immediately step into the ladder and climb right to the top. Then, again, don't stop to pay yourself on the back, immediately search for the next placement. You don't need to rush, just Don't stop. Snuff out all those little micro breaks one takes during the process. 

2. Have multiple check-in points where you compare your progress to where you thought you'd be at that point. Be honest with yourself. You want to find out you're not gonna make it early in the process of the signs are there, rather than ignoring obvious signs and being confronted with a mandatory retreat that is not in the dark and many more raps than it needed to be if you'd just acknowledged your place earlier. 

I also am rooting for you! 

Anything can happen. You might cruise the route with no one else in sight. You might bail before getting to Sickle Ledge. Please do let us know. 

Dave Alie wrote:

Those routes represent a significant step up for a team that has no wall experience and might be out of reach even if they are better objectives for the season. Good thought though, and potentially helpful insight for other teams

I agree that the actual climbing on the zodiac is more challenging than the nose but the traversing and pendulums on the nose are also a challenge if you're not used to them.  In addition the hauling on the zodiac is much easier and there is a lot less mandatory free climbing which could be wet on the nose.  The zodiac is also a LOT shorter than the nose. I know a lot of climbers who did the zodiac as their first el cap route.

Yes please report back! Don't let MP haters/advisors/arm-chair-generals/experts deter you. 

grug g wrote:

Yes please report back! Don't let MP haters/advisors/arm-chair-generals/experts deter you. 

I don't know about the others. IMHO I don't feel the OP has really thought through everything about this attempt. I don't even care if they have a major epic (it will make the trip report even more entertaining!) - I just don't want to see any injury/accident/rescue reports stemming from this. I'm  of the general opinion that choosing The Nose as someone's first wall isn't that great of an idea.

OP: BTW, you realize there isn't YOSAR at this time of year, yes?

Hi Kevin, I certainly have seen it like that. I have also been up there in December and in January when the rock was dry, no ice to fall  off, even climbing in a T shirt warm and comfortable. I would think you have too. 

All the people with warnings here have a point, TO SAY THE LEAST. But it can be the opposite. I can also be deadly in May or October. Any month really. Lotsa ways to die.

I for one don't know what conditions are at this time. 

A couple times now I have felt rather humbled by posts on MP. Like right now. 

Of course,  Kevin is  absolutely correct. 

For the record, I also agree with Kevin for the most part: this is a very low percentage shot and not at all the best approach if the goal is to summit. I had always wanted to climb the Nose and I didn't want to call in all the favors just to spend three days being miserable only to bail. Nor did I want to be the source of a traffic jam. So I did three other walls prior to attempting the nose. We trained at home and at the crag in addition to the three wall routes, and I enjoyed the experience much more for having been prepared. This is absolutely the way to go IMO, and in fact we wouldn't have summited if we hadn't prepared in that way.

We passed four other parties in order to summit on time, plus a fifth whose lead line we tagged up with us from El cap tower to the summit because they weren't prepared and seemed like they might be headed for a rescue if we just left them. Of the teams we passed, one bailed down low, and another didn't make their intended bivy at Camp 5 on night three, had to spend that night at Camp 4 instead, and incurred an entire extra day on the route which they didn't have full rations of water and food for. The team that bailed low wasted two days on the route that could have been spent climbing classic routes all over the valley. The team with the unintended extra day ended up summiting, which is nice, but had a last day on the wall that sounded like absolutely no fun at all. None of those experiences sound like a good time to me, so I always advocate for over-preparing. If you don't have the skill buffer to pass other teams or turn on the gas if the forecast changes, you're almost entirely relying on luck as Kevin points out. 

But hey, some folks have a higher tolerance for misery than I do that's for damn sure. With this route in particular, where bailing is possible and there aren't any objectively dangerous pitches esp down low, I don't think it's unreasonable for an over-motivated party to start up, realize they're not on pace, and head back down. With any self awareness at all, it'll be obvious early on if bailing is the right idea. 

i think the modal outcome (assuming reasonable weather) is: start up, take longer than expected getting both climbers and the pig to sickle, spend longer than expected getting over into the stove legs, and so on, until it's clear where this is going, followed by retreat to the ground. 

Not to undercut everything I just wrote, but one final thought: OP please take Kevin's perspective seriously, he knows what he's talking about. If you think you'll have a hard time pulling the bail trigger or if you don't have all your systems super dialed, then this route isn't for you (yet). If conditions are ok, the route is empty, you'll have no problem retreating, and don't mind dealing with some extended discomfort or potential wasted opportunity to do other things, then by all means go out there and get us a trip report

"Everyone has a plan.. 

..

until they get punched in the face."

-Mike Tyson, yosemite big wall climber

So, did they make it?

We need eyes in the Valley!