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El cap, getting down from the Nose in the next few weeks (weather depending)
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Hey all, We are waiting for a weather window to get up the Nose, if we do, wondered what exit peopleuse in the winter from the top out? Seems like the walk off could be way to sketchy with water/snow ice. We were thinking possibly hike to tamarack but thats 8mi. Suggestions? Thanks! Max |
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I once hiked down the falls trail at night (with just a day pack). It sucked. But it’s better than slipping to your death |
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Having walked it, Tamarack is more like 11+ miles, if the campground is closed. I never hiked the Falls Trail, so I can't compare. Have you done the East Ledges before? |
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Falls trail is about 9 miles, but then another mile or so from that trailhead back to el cap meadow. It sucks with a full bag, but can be done. |
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Have done all three, including walking with all the gear and haul bag over to the Falls trail in 6-12 inches of fresh snow. Nowadays the shuttle bus can take you from the bottom of the Falls trail to El Cap meadow. All three work, except when Tioga Pass road is closed. |
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You can always rap the route. For kicks I rappeled the Nose a few years ago on New Years eve. From the top a short rappel takes you down to a bolted station right at the lip. The first rap is a bit tricky due to the overhanging nature of things and the fact that it is not directly over the next rap station. This was the most tricky part. Below the Grey bands, it might be easier to rap down Grape Race instead of swing out East to head out to Boot Flake. Edit: Doing this would be much more like doing a true alpine climb, no walk-off easy way down. It would also spare you much of the tedious walk back to the car or camp. |
William Leventhal wrote: WTF |
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One time Nanook and I and the late Richie climbed Zodiac in a wintertime push. There was about a foot of snow on the ground at the top, and I remember feeling nervous about the East Ledges descent. It turned out to be no problem at all, and in places easier with the snow to step into deeply. I do remember it being above freezing, so I'm guessing it would be another story if it were below freezing and the slabs were to ice up. |
Peter Zabrok wrote: Had a similar experience with Jon "Jones Bones (Shabadoo)" Fox, we topped the Nose in a blizzard which dumped a lot of wet snow overnight, but temps were above freezing and we ended up scurrying down like wet rats. We had the 2 am discussion of doing the Falls trail, which may be the preferred method if EL is iced over. It's a pretty big elevation drop, so that temperature gradient could make a big difference. We went from snow at the top to rain on the EL... |
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Sounds tough, hope to get a 7 day weather window and possibly get down Yose falls trail Cheers, Max |
Eric Craig wrote: How far is the falls trail from the top of El Cap? |
McKinley Thompson wrote: Haul bags will be lighter with no water but still a grunt. |
McKinley Thompson wrote: I don't know precisely, a few miles from top of El Cap to the Yosemite Falls trail. It's a few hours from the top out to Camp 4. So yeah it's a bit faster going down the East Ledge descent route, and less hiking for sure, but there is a certain beauty to just putting all your climbing stuff away and then just putting one foot in front of the other. |
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How has no one tried to talk this dude out of this yet?! I certainly wouldn't be trying to go up there in the winter for my first wall, but maybe I'm just a fair weather climber. To say the EL descent is only "a bit faster" than the falls trail is absolutely bonkers, it's not even close. Trying to onsight the EL descent in the ice/snow is sketchy. If you're doing this, take some good (waterproof) hiking boots with you for the 4 miles of snow you'll hike through on the way to the top of the Falls Trail. And then definitely write up a trip report of this future epic. P.S. YOSAR won't be there during the winter. |
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The first time I summited the captain (in June) we made the decision to hike down the falls trail. Never again. With pigs it was probably almost an hour up to the true summit to hit the trail and then a super long hike back down. I bet much of the trail on top would be snowy but I would think that most of the trail from the falls junction down to camp 4 would be sketchy. You go down the steep valley next to the falls which I bet would be super icy and slick. I would definitely not recommend hiking the down the falls trail in winter. I would check the webcams (it's dark right now) but if you see snow on and around the summit the descent could be super slick. I also hiked to tamarack flats once to retrieve a load. I wouldn't do that again either. It's a very long hike and has more up and down than you would think. I only try and climb on the captain during the spring or fall anymore and have long since come to the conclusion that the east ledges is the best descent even though it still has its drawbacks. The best way I think to do it is double carry to the top of the raps ( if you have big loads), rap once and then double cary to manure pile if necessary. |
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I think it’s like 4 or 5 miles to the top of the falls, then another 3 and a half down to the valley, then another 3 or so to El cap meadow if that’s where you parked. Those first miles are likely to be snowy, slow going, and frustrating, but not truly dangerous because the terrain isn’t that steep. The falls trail could be fine depending on recent snow elevation levels. |
TaylorP wrote: No more bonkers than people suggesting a double carry to the raps. After topping out from a multi day ascent of the Nose (Salathe, 3D, Lurking Fear or any relatively trade route not REQUIRING portaledges) your total weight of everything should be under 50#. If it isn't, in my opinion you're taking TOO much shit. If you aren't particularly experienced and topped out after 4 or so days, maybe ran out of food because you spent more days than intended because you were slow and daylight was short, and now you are really spent, the longer walk could be a really fucking smart way to go. Sorry I don't remember the exact elapsed time or mileage. I never was a beta whore. And it all worked, no big deal. Out of all my various descents from the top El Cap the only 'beta' specific detail I recall is once descending the East Ledges route with a SINGLE 150 FOOT rope, and using it doubled for one rappel. Wasn't a problem. Since I don't remember much else, pretty sure I never had a problem. They all work. |
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I also don't think it's totally out of the question to do the falls trail descent. It's been mentioned that you're on rolling terrain in the trees for several miles to get to the top of the falls trail, which could be horrendous if snowy, but otherwise it's not terrible. The EL is quick and I did that on my first trip up, but we topped out during the daytime and it was still a little bit of work to find it and get set up safely. I had plenty of energy and the slabs were totally dry. My second time up my wife and I topped out right at sunset. We were smoked and there was some wetness around. It has been years since I'd done EL and our confidence in our movements was less than perfect. In that situation it felt like the right call to just take off our harnesses and hike down. It takes longer and can be suffery but at least you won't slip off an edge or botch the raps or spend oodles of time looking for them. There really is something golden about the mindlessness of hiking compared to rapping where I still have to be mentally sharp at least to some extent. If you've never done EL before, it could easily take a couple hours to get down from the summit to manure pile, vs about 3 hours or just over to hike down the falls trail to camp 4. Viewed that way its not the biggest penalty to avoid rapping and can be worth it under certain circumstances. (All this is predicated on the assumption that the falls trail isn't super dangerous in the condition being considered. If it is, then I don't think you benefit much vs the raps) |
TaylorP wrote: I wasn't planning to do the East ledges. Clearly if theres very much snow it will be a no go. Yose falls is our only oter option. |
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Good luck. I see on your profile that you recently started a thread asking about how to use jumars. I hope you make it to the summit, but you should also be prepared to rap the route just in case you don’t. If you don’t have much experience rapping with haul bags practice before you get on the wall and talk through your bailing strategy with your partner. Have fun! |
Michael Vaill wrote: Very good points. I"m not so concerned about jugging, been practicing a lot. More thinking about weather and cold am temps while belaying. Also the 9mi walk off to Yose falls could be snowy or icy. Ideally I'd be doing this in the Spring but my partners busy then. Yes, lowering out haul bags, will work on that. Thx, Max |
