Sense of purpose in leaving regular life for climbing

Earlier this year I took a four months sabbatical in between jobs and spent most of that time rock climbing around the Western USA. I have settled down again a couple of month agos and started a new job, which is leading me to see under a different light the experience of leaving a job, whether voluntarily or not, and devoting oneself to climbing almost full-time. During my trip I had met a few "nomad climbers" and/or "full time dirtbaggers" who left a job or school to climb, either living on odd and fleeting jobs, or using savings. I partly admired the boldness of that decision and felt a bit jealous about the time they had to dedicate to climbing and the freedom to explore new places, since my sabbatical was always being short term and I had a job lined up already in a location with no easy access to climbing.

Now that I am back in a settled life and my new job appears to be challenging and engaging, I have been wondering instead how sustainable a lifestyle like that is in terms of personal development and future opportunities. Aren't folks feeling they are missing out the prime years of their life for personal and professional growth in exchange for something as extemporary and self-centered as climbing full time? What are the value and purpose in that? Isn't there a sense of being in a limbo by carrying on with such a lifestyle with no plans in the future? It now seemed to me that what I thought was freedom can sometimes turn into being trapped.

Obviously I could have asked these questions to the people I met at that time, but I wasn't seeing this way then, probably because my enthusiasm has now worn out and I don't see as much point and purpose in climbing vs. growing in a job I like, or having a job that makes a tiny difference in the community.

I mention climbing, but this reasoning apply to any other activity with similar connotations, being surfing, thru-hiking, skiing etc. Climbing is neither better nor worse than any other pursuit. And I am also excluding those who turned climbing into their profession, although I cannot see what that could be excluding being a professional guide (I am excluding the irrelevant percentage of semi-professional climbers).

The "prime years of your life" applies just as much to climbing as it does anything else more "real"

Dare I say most/many jobs do not offer challenging, engaging, or purposeful work, or even opportunities for personal or professional growth. Consider yourself lucky. 

After I graduated from school, I planned to travel around for a couple months and climb full time. I had no job or prospects lined up, I just left. Those couple of months turned into two full years of living on the road — climbing and thru-hiking a chunk of the PCT. I fully funded it by freelance illustration. Those were the best two years of my life, and I’m grateful I had the opportunity (and privilege to do that)

 I’ve never felt more free and relaxed, but you are right in that there was always a little bit of anxiety in the back of my head about sustainable finances and retirement. I’ve met loads and loads of full-time nomads over those years, climbers and thruhikers. 90% of those people had *something*, either a fully remote job, well paying seasonal jobs, job/school waiting for them, or supportive families. Very few people had nothing — and those who did, quite frankly loved their dirtbaggery and would rather die that way than stop. Good for them for knowing what they want.

I think it’s all perspective on what we want to do with our short time on this planet — it’s about what makes us feel alive, you know? Some people have dream jobs, want to raise a family, a career that makes huge money. I dream of the mountains and I value free time to explore the world; I don’t dream of labor and so I will choose free time over prestige and money.

I figured out what I wanted through living on the road and experiencing that wild freedom.

I work full time now (un)fortunately, but I like to believe I’ve found a balance between freedom and security.

Obviously I could have asked these questions to the people I met at that time, but I wasn't seeing this way then, probably because my enthusiasm has now worn out and I don't see as much point and purpose in climbing vs. growing in a job I like, or having a job that makes a tiny difference in the community.

Different strokes and all that. I've known plenty in the corporate world of good jobs who get close to retirement with the feeling they have to have a bucket list. Not that there's anything wrong with that either. 

I admire those who can truly let go of consumer attachments and live their lives to a different beat, closer to the edge of things as it were.

Life is a trap, any way you cut it.

M K Robertsonwrote:

Aren't folks feeling they are missing out the prime years of their life for personal and professional growth in exchange for something as extemporary and self-centered as climbing full time? What are the value and purpose in that?

I'd argue you're missing out on the prime years of your life for climbing in exchange for something like work.

Josh Zwrote:

I'd argue you're missing out on the prime years of your life for climbing in exchange for something like work.

I suppose, at the end of the day, that it depends on where climbing (or any other activity) stands in each person's value system. True that I am lucky to feel that my own job has a sense of purpose, far from granted, but work is a "necessary evil" to keep the world we live in going, for better or worse. And the work of others allow us to climb, being the grocery store workers restocking the food we buy on our way to climbing, the trucker delivering gas to the stations where we stop to fill up, the engineers designing new and fancy pieces of gear, the exploited factory workers in China building those, the park attendants emptying the pit toilets and collecting trash, the software engineers developing social media platforms where so-called influencers post their pictures climbing  etc.

Climbing is not "necessary", it is a hedonistic pursuit. Which doesn't mean we shouldn't pursuit, by the way. I don't think the two can be equated. 

M K Robertsonwrote:

Earlier this year I took a four months sabbatical in between jobs and spent most of that time rock climbing around the Western USA. I have settled down again a couple of month agos and started a new job, which is leading me to see under a different light the experience of leaving a job, whether voluntarily or not, and devoting oneself to climbing almost full-time. During my trip I had met a few "nomad climbers" and/or "full time dirtbaggers" who left a job or school to climb, either living on odd and fleeting jobs, or using savings. I partly admired the boldness of that decision and felt a bit jealous about the time they had to dedicate to climbing and the freedom to explore new places, since my sabbatical was always being short term and I had a job lined up already in a location with no easy access to climbing.

Now that I am back in a settled life and my new job appears to be challenging and engaging, I have been wondering instead how sustainable a lifestyle like that is in terms of personal development and future opportunities. Aren't folks feeling they are missing out the prime years of their life for personal and professional growth in exchange for something as extemporary and self-centered as climbing full time? What are the value and purpose in that? Isn't there a sense of being in a limbo by carrying on with such a lifestyle with no plans in the future? It now seemed to me that what I thought was freedom can sometimes turn into being trapped.

Obviously I could have asked these questions to the people I met at that time, but I wasn't seeing this way then, probably because my enthusiasm has now worn out and I don't see as much point and purpose in climbing vs. growing in a job I like, or having a job that makes a tiny difference in the community.

I mention climbing, but this reasoning apply to any other activity with similar connotations, being surfing, thru-hiking, skiing etc. Climbing is neither better nor worse than any other pursuit. And I am also excluding those who turned climbing into their profession, although I cannot see what that could be excluding being a professional guide (I am excluding the irrelevant percentage of semi-professional climbers).

Mick Fowler (3 time Piolet d'Or winner) who still continues to do 1st ascents in the Himalayas at 68, if so wished, might have chosen a professional mountaineering occupation. Instead, he chose to work as a UK tax inspector and use his holidays to pursue groundbreaking 1st ascents in the Himalayas. The point is it depends on the values and objectives of the individual. A sustainable income is essential if you want a family. A dirtbag form of life is the opposite and that works for some. The distinction between low and high time preference is often ignored when younger as in many avenues of life. For example, index linked pensions or investments requires low time preference and a decision to set aside current spending and defer until later in life. The low/high distinction is also applicable to life span. Athletic prowess will diminish but 1st ascents and 5.11+ routes are still possible much later in life. If it's a choice between tragic demise (high time preference) I have chosen low time preference, low insulin levels and ketosis. There is always opportunity costs.

Love this thread. For those of us with the privilege to choose, you will always crave the dirtbag lifestyle when sitting at your desk or crave the comfort and security of a job and home when you're lonely on the road. The trick is to see the good in what you have.

The eternal dirtbag vs "normal" life question has always plagued me. I ended up choosing a mostly normal life, and watched many friends choose the dirtbag life, living parallel to me. In the end I think there is meaning and FOMO in both lifestyles, and ultimately its better to focus on creating freedom and joy in whatever your life looks like, whether dirtbag or full time job. Its also not so black and white...there is a middle ground, where you live in a place that allows after work climbing, or you work part time, or work remote...all good options if climbing is your passion but you are afraid to do it full time and forgo the security of income and retirement.

I know people who do both (prioritize work/stability, and prioritize climbing) and both groups are sure they are making the better choice, but also jealous of the perks of the other group. Most people do a bit of both at different times of their life, kinda like you. I don't think either one is morally or ethically superior. 

Just live somewhere with a good gym and where you can climb after work during the summer, don't have kids (which put way more of a crimp on climbing than a job ever will) and do both.  Unless you want to be an expedition climber you will have plenty of time to climb and plenty of money to travel.  If expeditions are on your mind then you'll need to consider a more flexible lifestyle.  In the U.S., vanishing for big chunks of time time is a hard sell with employers.  

This question has been in my head bitd when I was hostel hopping over Europe. 

A younger version of me longed for a whole life of odd job and hostel hopping to see the whole world. But after a few month-long trips I started to be disillusioned about modern traveling. Unless I get to meet local people and learn their languages, what I got was usually a polished/commodified version of some historical/cultural experience that is ready to be delivered and consumed by a class of homogenized "global citizens" who all speak some Western languages, which felt quite boring and disingenuous. But I've learnt a lot about history/culture/politics/communication that are useful in surprisingly large amount of life situations.

Then I got hooked with climbing. But this time I understand how perspectives change so easily. Though I'm certain I will still treasure the memory, friendship and life lessons from climbing, one day I might find climbing completely unenjoyable and pointless. So I need something else to be the anchor of my life, and for me that's a fulfilling career that I'm good at and enjoy. And I am indeed much more talented at my current job than climbing. Plus trips to Yosemite made me realize I'm too uptight and shy to fit in the dirtbag scene, and I enjoy a few deep, long-term climbing partnerships rather than having to switch climbing partners all the time. 

Could that "anchor of life" be something else for someone else? Totally. Does that make me morally superior to dirtbags? No. Then where do we draw the line? I think it's acknowledging how our existence relies on the labor of the others, and act correspondingly (i.e. at least give something back to the community/society). Without this that I can't think of dirtbagging being sustainable and ethical. 

One thing I've learned through several cycles of full-time climbing and full-time employment is the value of change. Spending too long doing one thing can leave you in a bubble, where you forget the value of different ways of seeing the world. I don't understand people who spend many years only climbing, and I also don't understand people who don't take any time off of working to go climb (if financially able).

Travel, all by itself, is all the wonderful things we think or might think it will be. Travel is also onerous and can be exhausting. A lifetime of travel begins to weigh on a person. Trust me, even the most travel-capable and willing among us feels the weight of accumulated travel. You may get to a point where travel is the last thing you want to be doing. Don't be surprised by this.

For some, travel is "their job" and they never tire to the point of stopping, settling down as it were. The rolling stone eventually gathers moss? Yes, for the vast majority of us.

M K Robertsonwrote:

...

Now that I am back in a settled life and my new job appears to be challenging and engaging, I have been wondering instead how sustainable a lifestyle like that is in terms of personal development and future opportunities. Aren't folks feeling they are missing out the prime years of their life for personal and professional growth in exchange for something as extemporary and self-centered as climbing full time? What are the value and purpose in that? Isn't there a sense of being in a limbo by carrying on with such a lifestyle with no plans in the future? ...

I mention climbing, but this reasoning apply to any other activity with similar connotations, being surfing, thru-hiking, skiing etc. Climbing is neither better nor worse than any other pursuit. And I am also excluding those who turned climbing into their profession, although I cannot see what that could be excluding being a professional guide (I am excluding the irrelevant percentage of semi-professional climbers).

Many years ago, the guy running my climbing gym made this observation: You have career, hobby, and family. If you do great at one of them, the others must suffer. Do mediocre at two, the third will suffer. I think he's right on. When my focus shifted from climbing to career, I didn't miss climbing one bit, in fact I essentially forgot about it. The only times I climbed then were when visitors came by and forced me into it. I'm glad that I could experience such a phase.  

No career or financial incentives will ever rival the everlasting nirvana of ticking a soft 13a in Ten Sleep

I feel like the moment I met my wife that dirtbag dream dissolved. Providing quality of life for my son and spouse became paramount. Luckily I have a job that affords lots of climbing time. But there are times when I'm on the road thinking: yeah, had circumstances been different I could totally be happy living in a van and climbing my ass off. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Travel, all by itself, is all the wonderful things we think or might think it will be. Travel is also onerous and can be exhausting. A lifetime of travel begins to weigh on a person. Trust me, even the most travel-capable and willing among us feels the weight of accumulated travel. You may get to a point where travel is the last thing you want to be doing. Don't be surprised by this.

For some, travel is "their job" and they never tire to the point of stopping, settling down as it were. The rolling stone eventually gathers moss? Yes, for the vast majority of us.

Do you suppose that you alone have had this experience? Are you surprised, as if it were a novelty, that after such long travel and so many changes of scene you have not been able to shake off the gloom and heaviness of your mind? You need a change of soul rather than a change of climate.Though you may cross vast spaces of sea, and though, as our Vergil remarks, "Lands and cities are left astern," your faults will follow you whithersoever you travel. Socrates made the same remark to one who complained; he said: "Why do you wonder that globe-trotting does not help you, seeing that you always take yourself with you? The reason which set you wandering is ever at your heels." What pleasure is there in seeing new lands? Or in surveying cities and spots of interest? All your bustle is useless. Do you ask why such flight does not help you? It is because you flee along with yourself. You must lay aside the burdens of the mind; until you do this, no place will satisfy you. 

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_28

Great post JP! 

On the flip side I'm still curious about what's round that proverbial next bend. Despite any troubles I'm running from, or toward (hey, we're climbers, right?), that core curiosity remains untarnished. I still want to experience new places, wild lands, cities, civilizations; for the experience alone. But I've mixed in a couple million air miles on business travel along with all the personal travel and it wears on a person. For me it manifests itself in trip planning - I pretty much refuse to sweat the details anymore. I refuse the plan. If I go, I go with random intentions and no punch lists. Aimless, some might call it. I call it liberation.

Imagine, a month in Europe with no goals, no "must-do's", no tick lists; none. Go out the door, choose left or right, and keep going till you decide on another left/right. You never know where you'll end up, just keep your feet under you! 

I have had a few conversations with friends about this, after spending some time on the road and finding it pretty unsatisfying. The short answer I've come to is that if you can make community on the road, by spending time in the same place(s), doing it long enough to know others on the circuit, or going to places where you know locals and connect with them regularly, being transient can be wonderful. But the point is not the mobility, its the people. I think it's far easier to have a sense of purpose to your efforts (of any kind) when you're surrounded by people who actually care if you had a good day, and you care about theirs, with whom your relationships aren't transactional or circumstantial. This is hard to find in transient climbing, although relationships formed in that setting can be very intense and satisfying. Frankly, it's hard to find anywhere. 

But when I read 'sense of purpose' I think: 'People I care about, who care about me, around me.' I know the original post was very oriented towards career progress, and maybe that's where some people get a sense of purpose, but to me the salient comparison between the lifestyles of transient climbing versus settled life + climbing has to do less with accomplishment and more with people.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Great post JP! 

On the flip side I'm still curious about what's round that proverbial next bend. Despite any troubles I'm running from, or toward (hey, we're climbers, right?), that core curiosity remains untarnished. I still want to experience new places, wild lands, cities, civilizations; for the experience alone. But I've mixed in a couple million air miles on business travel along with all the personal travel and it wears on a person. For me it manifests itself in trip planning - I pretty much refuse to sweat the details anymore. I refuse the plan. If I go, I go with random intentions and no punch lists. Aimless, some might call it. I call it liberation.

Imagine, a month in Europe with no goals, no "must-do's", no tick lists; none. Go out the door, choose left or right, and keep going till you decide on another left/right. You never know where you'll end up, just keep your feet under you! 

Well said, and motivating at that. Cheers to the next 'unknown' or the next 'new' in your life - it keeps us on our toes.