Climbing grades indoor vs outdoor

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yet world cup kids go out and send 5.14 in their first month climbing outside.

 You can gain a lot of strength and learn balance and inherent movement patterns on plastic. It doesn't translate 100% but there is pretty significant overlap.

I think most people probably don't boulder enough indoors though. 

That's a good point. It would be interesting if there were a study, or at least a survey, to see how well plastic translates to rock. My perspective is limited to my own experience and the experiences of friends.

Again... as far as exercise goes, it's definitely more fun than moving dumbbells around.

I've come to accept that outdoors and indoors are just 2 separate but related disciplines. I climb on 5.11s in the gym but struggle up 5.8-5.9 outdoors. Seeing and using the holds on real rock is it's own skill that you have to practice.

It may also just be me, but once you get into the 5.10s outdoors the difficulty curve seems to lessen a bit. Falls become less dangerous with no big ledges to land on, and less hold options mean the beta is more obvious. Foot holds are smaller and less visible, but your rubber sticks much better.

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yet world cup kids go out and send 5.14 in their first month climbing outside.

Surely the fact that two drop out boulderers from the UK national team can go, and not just sent 5.14, but send the fking Changing Corners on the Nose, puts this to bed?Indoor climbing can be extremely technical and an excellent preparation.

Of course you still have to put in the hours and days outdoors though to bring it across.

Sam M wrote:

Surely the fact that two drop out boulderers from the UK national team can go, and not just sent 5.14, but send the fking Changing Corners on the Nose, puts this to bed?Indoor climbing can be extremely technical and an excellent preparation.

Of course you still have to put in the hours and days outdoors though to bring it across.

I don’t think these crusty fellas know how technical comp problems and routes are these days

John Clark wrote:

I don’t think these crusty fellas know how technical comp problems and routes are these days

I think it's mostly protecting ego hence my comment of "yeah but let's see them on 5.8 handcrack" above 

Connor Dobson wrote:

I think it's mostly protecting ego hence my comment of "yeah but let's see them on 5.8 handcrack" above 

You watch any comps lately? No-tex hand jam and fist jam on an overhang. Not 5.8 looking

John Clark wrote:

You watch any comps lately? No-tex hand jam and fist jam on an overhang. Not 5.8 looking

That would be 5.8+ in the valley /s

John Clark wrote:

I don’t think these crusty fellas know how technical comp problems and routes are these days

To be fair there are certainly a lot of indoor boulder bros that get addicted to e.g. the kilter board and hate slabs. And indoor lead climbers also avoid it (gotta have squeeky clean whips!)

But the actual competition boulderers take slabs very seriously, and train on them all the time. Every comp set has a slab and even if you don't like it you can't afford to write off 1/4 of the climbs.

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yet world cup kids go out and send 5.14 in their first month climbing outside.

Correlation does not equal causation. Sharma also climbed 5.11 or 5.12 his first time in the gym 

I think most people probably don't boulder enough indoors though. 

This. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Correlation does not equal causation. Sharma also climbed 5.11 or 5.12 his first time in the gym 

Technically…sharma was a proto-comp kid

John Clark wrote:

Technically…sharma was a proto-comp kid

No

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

No

Denial is not just a river in egypt

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yet world cup kids go out and send 5.14 in their first month climbing outside.

Sam M wrote:

Surely the fact that two drop out boulderers from the UK national team can go, and not just sent 5.14, but send the fking Changing Corners on the Nose, puts this to bed?Indoor climbing can be extremely technical and an excellent preparation.

Of course you still have to put in the hours and days outdoors though to bring it across.

This comparison is flawed. You should look at the middle of the distribution, not the tail. Climbing 5.14a/b is piss to people competing at this level, who are extremely talented and genetically gifted. All this demonstrates is that you have a poor understanding of climbing difficulties at higher grades and the ability of professional athletes. There are scores of people with regular jobs (and even kids) climbing 5.14. 

Regardless, the average gym climber does not climb the same grade outside, and often has poor technique. I agree that there is overlap, but I think this is more due to training strength and capacity rather than developing good technique. It helps if you explicitly dedicate your indoor sessions towards improving skills that are relevant outside.

John Clark wrote:

Denial is not just a river in egypt

Do explain then. How was Sharma a proto-comp kid? Even if your argument holds some merit, Sharma got booted from comp scene before any of the comp climbs were even “compy”. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Do explain then. How was Sharma a proto-comp kid? Even if your argument holds some merit, Sharma got booted from comp scene before any of the comp climbs were even “compy”. 

That reminds me of the scene in Rampage where they are in the middle of an outdoor bouldering road trip and they make a quick stop at the X-Games. Sharma wins and picks up a check to help fund their continuing road trip. That definitely would not happen these days with modern comp climbing.

Pino Pepino wrote:

This comparison is flawed. You should look at the middle of the distribution, not the tail. Climbing 5.14a/b is piss to people competing at this level, who are extremely talented and genetically gifted. All this demonstrates is that you have a poor understanding of climbing difficulties at higher grades and the ability of professional athletes. There are scores of people with regular jobs (and even kids) climbing 5.14. 

Regardless, the average gym climber does not climb the same grade outside, and often has poor technique. I agree that there is overlap, but I think this is more due to training strength and capacity rather than developing good technique. It helps if you explicitly dedicate your indoor sessions towards improving skills that are relevant outside.

I've sent almost a number harder on a rope outside and boulder the same grades. There are also not "scores" of people climbing 5.14 lol

There's probably at least 40 people climbing 5.14, so that would be scores of people.

Israel R wrote:

There's probably at least 40 people climbing 5.14, so that would be scores of people.

Israel R wrote:

There's probably at least 40 people climbing 5.14, so that would be scores of people.

There are that many people climbing 5.15 probably.

Israel R wrote:

There's probably at least 40 people climbing 5.14, so that would be scores of people.

You forgot a 0