World’s Hardest 5.8? I need your input!

Peshastin Pinnacles is terribly sandbagged, good chance it lies there because the holds continually to break. If not there here’s a few I’ve ran into,       Index- Aries, Seneca - triple S, Gunks- CCK……

The Burn gets my vote.

I thought Whinelamer at Whipoorwill in the New River Gorge was pretty hard for the 5.8 grade the guidebook gives it. 

Modern Times in the Gunks has received a lot of 'votes' on here ( as well as some--'it isn't that hard's'). While I agree that the route is likely harder than 5.8, I wonder how much the intimidation/exposure factor contributes to the perception of it's difficulty? While those factors are quite common in the Gunks ( at pretty much all grades), there does seem to be, at least to me, an enhanced feeling of commitment on that crux. I wonder if it would feel as hard if that sequence was closer to the deck.

ClimbingOn wrote:

Modern Times at the Gunks. There really is no argument. 

I see where this comment is coming from, and I adore the Gunks. And this may be a hot take - I believe this route is pretty overrate in my opinion for its difficultly and exposure. It is 4 moves on jugs with some air under you. Double Crack at the Gunks is much more difficult and sustained. 

P1 of Selaginella kicked the snout out of me this past summer. Granted it was 98 degrees and full sun... But for that whole thing to go at 5.8 is crazy, in my used to overhanging jug hauling opinion.  

Not physically, hard, but I remember feeling very triumphed after getting a wee bit sandbagged into leading Mickey Mantle at suicide Rock. 

Here is a route which rarely gets done since it's a 16 mile hike, and 14-16 pitches long.  The few climbers who have done it ,  rate it  5.9-10.  When I did this route, back in 1972, with John Bouchard, we rated it 5.8.  We did not traverse left, half way up, but went straight up thru an overhang, which was the crux. I must admit there was little or No protection, on a few pitches. We had been climbing for 2 months, in Yosemite, and elsewhere, and were young, and keen. No bolts were placed by us, but apparently climbers who have bailed have used a few.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/108335852/raid-peak-south-buttresseast-face

stephen arsenault wrote:

Here is a route which rarely gets done since it's a 16 mile hike, and 14-16 pitches long.  The few climbers who have done it ,  rate it  5.9-10.  When I did this route, back in 1972, with John Bouchard, we rated it 5.8.  We did not traverse left, half way up, but went straight up thru an overhang, which was the crux. I must admit there was little or No protection, on a few pitches. We had been climbing for 2 months, in Yosemite, and elsewhere, and were young, and keen. No bolts were placed by us, but apparently climbers who have bailed have used a few.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/108335852/raid-peak-south-buttresseast-face

Yeah, Steve, pretty much anything you or John put up back then is going to seem pretty sandbagged by today's standards!!!!

Trevor Jones wrote:

I see where this comment is coming from, and I adore the Gunks. And this may be a hot take - I believe this route is pretty overrate in my opinion for its difficultly and exposure. It is 4 moves on jugs with some air under you. Double Crack at the Gunks is much more difficult and sustained. 

P1 of Selaginella kicked the snout out of me this past summer. Granted it was 98 degrees and full sun... But for that whole thing to go at 5.8 is crazy, in my used to overhanging jug hauling opinion.  

Came here to revise my answer to Double Crack after previously saying Modern Times. It's the hardest 5.8 I have ever been on. The start is burly, definitely felt solid 5.9. And the pump at the top really creeps up on you. A phenomenal pitch of rock climbing.

slim wrote:

Umph slot is easily a number grade harder than grand giraffe, modern times, or any of the other routes listsd above that i have done. I would say it is the hardest 8 i have ever been on. I cant think of anything similar in difficulty.

Agreed Umph slot is stout! I have seen it shut down a few 5.11 Vedauwoo leaders. 

Modern Times (Trapps, Shawangunks). obvious sandbag; nothing new here.

Minne Belle (Skytop, Shawangunks). I always though this was one of Wiessner's harder Gunks routes.

Wiessner Route (Noonmark, Adirondacks). This may be Wiessner's most difficult free route in the US. He definitely climbed more difficult routes in the Elbsandstein.

Jim Lawyer wrote:

Modern Times (Trapps, Shawangunks). obvious sandbag; nothing new here.

Minne Belle (Skytop, Shawangunks). I always though this was one of Wiessner's harder Gunks routes.

Wiessner Route (Noonmark, Adirondacks). This may be Wiessner's most difficult free route in the US. He definitely climbed more difficult routes in the Elbsandstein.

Minnebelle is the only one of Wiessner's routes in the Gunks that was rated 5.8 once the decimal system was established in the Gunks in Gran's guidebook--so has been consistently recognized as his hardest ( in terms of grade) route there. Too bad that the current rules at Skytop greatly limit the number of folks who will be able to climb it.

I have never done the route on Noonmark. Have you done Vector at Ragged Mountain?  If so, how do the 2 routes compare in difficulty?

In the early 1930's when Fritz started climbing here after he emigrated from Germany, the small cadre of local NY climbers brought him to their crags in the Hudson Highlands about an hour north of NYC. Starting on his first day with them, at a cliff called Arden, he climbed a route that amazed the locals as it was significantly harder than anything they had climbed. Over the next few years he established a series of at least 4 other routes on 3 additional cliffs, all in the same league of difficulty. Then, from one of those cliffs, Breakneck Ridge, he spied a line of cliffs further north--Gunks climbing was 'born', and the 'scene' shifted there. This was decades before there was any modern grading system in this region--so those Highland routes were described  only as being very difficult.

The cliffs in the Highlands were closed to public access during World War 2 and then subsequently transferred to the Palisades Interstate Park, which has maintained the climbing ban. To my knowledge, no contemporary climber has repeated those routes since decimal grades were established, so we don't know how hard by modern standards any of these routes actually are---but I have a strong belief that at least some of them are no less than 5.8 and quite possibly more difficult.

The Wiessner chimney at Humphreys shares the bottom pitch  of the guides  route which is rated 5.9 and the first pitch of the guides  route when it used to be broken in to pitches was called 5.9.  

Alan Rubin wrote:

I have never done the route on Noonmark. Have you done Vector at Ragged Mountain?  If so, how do the 2 routes compare in difficulty?

I haven't climbed Vector. I have climbed the Noonmark route several times, and in the 2008 guidebook we upgraded it from 5.8 (in Mellor's guide) to 5.9. Feels like 9+ though.

A will give a third vote to Double Crack at the Gunks, especially if you take it all the way to the top in one pitch. Such a great climb though.

Reiterate early comments about Triple S at Seneca. I climbed Marshall’s Madness that same day and was equally thrilled to get to the chains on the flash attempt of both.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Yeah, but that route was initially graded by Kevin (Bein), who was so strong that he really couldn’t tell the difference. It will be 35 years this summer since we lost him. Still miss him very much. The Gunks has never been the same without The Mayor.

It’s a lot easier if you just walk across the ledge….my 1st solo at 17. 

I remember getting a call that morning with the news, sad, Kevin was an awesome guy!  He was the 1st in what is now unfortunately too long of a list of dead friends.  He was also the 1st climber I knew to be on the cover of a climbing magazin, pretty big time for a starry eyed wanna be hard man (or at least boy).

Keep RIP Robo Waiter! 

I've been keeping a spreadsheet of these recommendations and have 84 climbs documented with other info including first ascentionist(s) and FA year.

Some trends I've noticed:

• Originally I had thought that the earlier the FA, the harder the climb. Not necessarily the case. Instead I've noticed that there were certain climbers in certain areas during certain times (e.g. Becky in Leavenworth in the 60s) where the climbs that were established are now considered to be very sandbagged.
• The areas that are most commonly called out as sandbagged are: Leavenworth, Tahquitz, North Conway, Dacks, Seneca, JTree and Yosemite (not in that order).

Since starting this post, I've gone out to try some of these climbs. I found the 5.8s at Castle Rock in Leavenworth (Damnation and Canary) to be far more challenging than anticipated. Great recommendations. I didn't think Prusik Peak was sandbagged. I also tried the infamous Umph Slot outside of Boulder, and I could barely even get off the ground/starting ledge. Granted I'm not an offwidth climber, and maybe I'm too big for it to go at that grade, but in 15 years of climbing I've never been stuck at the ground on a 5.8. I don't think it would've gone for me on TR. This may be more of a novelty grade than anything (it's a 10+ on mtp).

Seneca Rocks, WV grades are among the stiffest I’ve seen.

Kyle S wrote:

Gunks, gunks, gunks...

We get it, it's all gnarly and overhanging, but how is that different than your average gym climb these days? If you want to get your ass kicked on 5.8, look no further than Index and the heinous, flaring chimney on p2 of Aires - mountainproject.com/route/1…

This chimney was the first 5.8 I fell on in like 5 years, and I have climbed a lot of 5.8s and chimneys. Definitely harder than any of the gunks 8s mentioned.