New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #26

dragonswrote:

Alan, I was there too! What a great event! Sorry I didn't get to meet you. And thanks posting the pic.

Hi Dragons. Very sorry that we didn't connect--so many people to talk with, while also trying to squeeze in a few climbs!!!!  Great time. Hopefully we'll actually meet soon.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Hi Dragons. Very sorry that we didn't connect--so many people to talk with, while also trying to squeeze in a few climbs!!!!  Great time. Hopefully we'll actually meet soon.

Alan, my home crag is the Gunks now. If you pass through, please dm me and let's try to get together! I think you are in MA? If I'm passing through there I'll do the same. (Is it possible that we met via the AMC at some point? Maybe.)

Richard's speech was inspirational (and also educational, since I didn't know how the Uberfall was a part of the social fabric of climbing back in the day). Unfortunately, I'm rather lacking in social skills and find it difficult to approach strangers... I did actually meet a few new people last night, which was fun   

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Lori, re heavy metals in protein powders - I think saying that vegetarian sources are higher is too broad a statement. Are they high enough to be damaging? Does a vegetarian protein powder source give you a higher heavy metal load than eating a can of tuna or some liver pate? Are there any foods without heavy metals? Here's a counterpoint - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7509468/

This study presents a screening level risk assessment investigating whether protein powder supplement ingestion is likely a significant source of heavy metal exposure, and whether this exposure poses an increased risk to human health. The data in the current study suggest that heavy metal exposure via protein powder supplement ingestion does not pose an increased non-carcinogenic risk to human health. Further, no carcinogenic risk was expected from As via ingestion of protein powder supplements. This study demonstrates that health risks of heavy metals in protein powder supplements should be conducted within the context of relevant background exposures and established health based standards instead of the presence of hazardous substances alone.

dragonswrote:

Thanks for the extra info, Donald. It's interesting that you're doing strength after Zone 2, now. I've been really loathe to do this, assuming it will cause my form to get sloppy, and wind up either with injury or just poorer strength. How's your strength training going after doing Zone 2? Notice any differences? Also, do you have a specific goal for Zone 2 training?

My interest in Zone 2 was specifically to try to improve my HRV (and maybe RHR). Are you keeping track of either of these? I'd be curious to know if you have seen changes. I used heart rate as a proxy for Zone 2 and found the training did not help at all. Possibly (probably?) I wasn't actually doing Zone 2. It did look to me like my max HR slightly increased: I saw measurements of 170 bpm several times when doing VO2 max training, something I haven't seen in years. The caveat is that I haven't tried to do VO2 max training before this year. So maybe it was just the VO2 max training that produced that change.

There is a considerable amount of literature and training material on Power Zones and Training.  While some people use three power zones, the six power zone training is more common among cyclists and runners. The graph below shows these power zones and the percentages of Threshold Power expended.

The most effective way to increase your aerobic capacity is by using Zone 4 (Threshold Power) in intervals interspersed with Active Recovery and Endurance/Tempo. Theoretically, you should be able to maintain your Threshold Power for 60 minutes, but as a practical matter, this may be possible only after lots of training (10 to 30 minutes is more like it). 

On a bicycle, you can use a power meter, or for cycling, running or perhaps even cycling, you can use an APP like Strava (and/or a heartrate monitor) that will let you input your FTP (threshold Power) or it will assume what it may be by age and weight. 

VO2 Max is really very short intensity and not really a valuable training tool for older individuals.

wet snow falling most of the day. I did 2hrs of trail work on my biathlon course. then I ran the course twice with snowshoes. did horrible the first lap. Only 3 hits out of the nine targets..   wet snow, foggy glasses and pumped forearms from lugging tree branches and running a big pro chainsaw.  2nd time through I hit 7 of nine which is tied for the best I have been doing on this course. station 3 is a tricky angle in dark woods and I have yet to get it clean (2 hits) none of the other targets are easy..   then I skied out to the sauna and lit the fire.

i need to shovel that dock off. its tricky and slippery in bare feet. 

went for a xc ski loop and she was up to 175f when I came back. did two rounds :)

got my tree decorated today

Happy birthday Rich! Sounds like a nice party!

H.

Nick, you are probably the most energetic, ambitious person I know. BTW, I just noticed that you live in Pomfret. I have a facebook friend (someone I barely knew back in the 60s) who lives in N Pomfret. She used to sing at the local FL coffee house where I waitressed. 

Brandt Allenwrote:

I see I'm not the only one who wears T-shirts meant for someone much younger!

Brandt, my excuse for age-inappropriate sartorial choices is that my daughter Sarah is the keyboardist for boygenius.

Here they are rehearsing for a recent SNL performance.

Wendy. I moved from pomfret to the north east kingdom. Last fall.  Isa is the energetic one. I am a slug..  it's shaping up to be a lonely winter. Isa is in Europe and when she comes back she plans on staying with her daughter to help with the new baby.. 

Rich. It looks like your daughters band is having some success! Awesome. 

Rich, I am mostly a lurker on this thread but wanted to wish you a happy birthday as well. I have this fantasy of heading over to NY and climbing with you at the Gunks. Your posts and the various threads throughout this MP Forum have been a real treat for me and for my continuing education as a climber, and as a somewhat older person who seems to get older every year for some reason whether I want to or not. Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful voice amongst the sometimes (oftentimes?) chaos of this site. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

my continuing education as a climber, and as a somewhat older person who seems to get older every year for some reason whether I want to or not.

Noticed that it takes much longer to heal and more sleep helps.

So, as the younger crowd parties around the campfires in the evenings, I’ll be the snoring “old man” in my tent nestled comfortably in my overly plush sleeping bag.

rgold - Yes, very cool indeed! I must say I've never heard Boygenius. I will have to check them out. Wear that T-shirt proudly!

Yesterday was another sunny and warm day here in JT. I was very pleased to be able to do a few routes with only a twinge or two of elbow pain for the first time in weeks. Very encouraging to know it's healing.

rgold, Happy Birthday!

Thank you too, for all your contributions to the MP Forum.

Thanks, Todd, that was great. I loved the vocal harmonies. I have to admit that all the jumping around wore me out.

Brandt Allenwrote:

... I have to admit that all the jumping around wore me out.

Presumably, VO2 max training would help you with that.

Ok, I need to talk.  I think I'm within reach of sending Torturer's Apprentice (maybe)... and was thinking about other climbing that interests me.  I took my morning walk around to the backside of the Sentinel, to take a look at the Centipede 11d.  Not that this could ever be my route.  

In 2013 my friend Nelson Day wrote: "I TR'd this and I didn't see any pro past the third bolt for at least 25 feet of sustained tips/sloper campus-traversing/desperate smearing on the upper portion of Chameleon (once you traverse in - called .10+ flaring crack by the OP). Definitely rated R. As such I would never lead this."

Well, in 2022, Nelson asked me to belay him while he led the Centipede.  It was just a casual request while I was resting from climbing Illusion Dweller.  What I recall is being so astonished watching him transform himself into a human bug, belly to the wall, working his way up that route without a fall (until the crux).  I had NO idea how dangerous it was, or the potential consequences of a fall, being a fairly new belayer.  All I knew was that I watching something incredible. 

My thought today is where have all the cowboys gone?  

Other than the guy who recently died free soloing Illusion Dweller, I see no evidence of anyone being back there.  I'm really asking, is this kind of climbing over?  Has it been taken over by bouldering, sport climbing and the safety of the gym? 

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 A minor point, but I would love to find a Centipede-ish climb for me.    

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What's the problem here?  Is it too hard?  Too "old", passe?  Maybe trad climbing (here) has just lost its charm.  

The route I have been climbing on Little Hunk requires quite a setup.  Bob might elucidate, but I can see that it involves a Joshua Tree rigging system.  I 'could' learn to do this.  From a book.     With a lot of practice. I'm sure Bob would teach me, (in fact, I have taken the Anchoring class), but there's also the small matter of scrambling to the top.   Maybe it's just not worth the bother to weekend warriors?  

I wake up every morning to at least one picture of a indoor climber contortionist.  (I love indoor climbing.  But not even close to moving on rock.)

The Sentinel

I HATE seeing the Centipede in such disrepair.  It makes me sad. 

This is the smoothest rock.  It just needs a little love.  

All you gotta do is grab a sidepull to get a little start.    

I wish I had been around to witness Bachar, Scott Cosgrove, John Long, Charles Cole, and so many others (Including Bob, of course) gather round and do their thing.  Many of you were here, and then left.  I want everyone to come back!  

On a MUCH happier note.  Looks like the Leap has had snow, and so Sugarloaf is back in play.  Petch is a great guide.  If I did drive up to see my family, I'd love to get to Sugarloaf.  But, going from sea level to 7000 feet on a morning drive, and then being ready to hike and climb, for me, is a stretch.  

Lori Milaswrote:

             

My thought today is where have all the cowboys gone?  

Other than the guy who recently died free soloing Illusion Dweller, I see no evidence of anyone being back there.  I'm really asking, is this kind of climbing over?  Has it been taken over by bouldering, sport climbing and the safety of the gym? 

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 A minor point, but I would love to find a Centipede-ish climb for me.    

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What's the problem here?  Is it too hard?  Too "old", passe?  Maybe trad climbing (here) has just lost its charm.  

Lori, many people climb Illusion Dweller -- all the time. Other routes get done less frequently. Centipede is likely only going to get climbed rarely for the reasons you mentioned - it never was a popular route - for the same reasons. 

Illusion Dweller is super popular.  Even if you look at just MP users who decide to log their ascents, more than 25 people climbed the route within the last month alone. Trad climbing is alive and well at Josh.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Thanks, Todd, that was great. I loved the vocal harmonies. I have to admit that all the jumping around wore me out.

Sarah's band nickname is "jumper."

It helps to be 1/2 our ages...

Lori Milaswrote:

My thought today is where have all the cowboys gone?  

Other than the guy who recently died free soloing Illusion Dweller, I see no evidence of anyone being back there.  I'm really asking, is this kind of climbing over?  

There are thousands of hard trad climbers still doing sketchy routes all over the place, all the time.

Illusion Dweller is not in that category of course.  It's very well protected, even more so with modern small cams.  And the climbing is quite secure.

I have to say, Sam and I invoked your name when we started our day, midweek, on Sail Away, a couple of weeks ago.  We got there and 2 people were just finishing up, two more were just about to start.  And as we were climbing, 2 more came to do it.  Eight people in the course of 30 minutes. We said to each other "It's just like Lori says, no one climbs in Joshua Tree any more".    

OK well, Sail Away, that’s not fair!  

Why am I so wistful about this? This was never mine to begin with. And I like to think I move with the times, not hanging onto the past. But I feel sentimental about Joshua Tree and especially its history.  I see people walking around with their heads buried in big fold out maps, trying to figure out where they are. I could help with that.

Actually, I think it would be a great win-win if the park service would give me a little permit to go to some of these climbing sites with a pair of hedge clippers and grass blowers and clear some paths. Has anyone seen how Jeff Constine keeps up his tick rock? It’s like a Japanese tea garden there and boy does he give people hell if they drop stuff on his ground. He has a nice little rake and a couple chairs. It’s very lovely.

But speaking of anchors – – which we weren’t – – I saw a little video this morning of one of our Guide services training some interested persons in bolting and rebolting various routes. It made me a little uncomfortable to think that anyone could head out with a drill and some chalk and go to town on rock. I understand that you need a permit now to do most of this, but after watching this video, I can see why they came down hard. I’d just as soon not have to wonder whether newby bolt driller did a good job or not.  Some things I take for granted without even realizing it for instance, if Bob set up a top rope for me, it’s gonna hold no matter the difficulty of the route. I have certainly seen some fellow climbers tie in on routes so sketchy you wonder how they’re still alive.