New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #26

If it’s any indication for you, I took a VO2 test a year and a half ago measuring 45 to 50. Hiking up 2300 feet in 2.75 miles takes me an hour to 1.5 hours at 4000 feet elevation. I weigh about 188 pounds. 1 hour and I’m pretty much gasping for air. 1.5 hours is a very decent workout.

The test was more for fun than anything else, and unless you plan high altitude expeditions may not be worth the $300+?

Fitnescity: fitnescity.com/vo2-max-test…

dragonswrote:

I'm lagging in this thread.

Donald, could you please clarify what you're doing with your training program? I read that as follows: (1) You train 5-6 days per week. (2) When you train, you do zone 2 cardio (please define? And for how long? Since there are lots of different meanings of Zone 2). (3) Every day that you train, you do 10-20 sets of strength - does that mean like "20 sets of squats, 10 reps each"? Or, a total of 20 sets, e.g. 1 set squats + 1 set lunges + 1 set shoulder press + etc = total of 10 sets.

I wanted clarity because I would not normally think of doing 10-20 sets of one strength exercise. Usually I do 3 circuits where 1 circuit consists of 8 or so exercises (biceps, triceps, quads, etc). (I used to do splits, but I'm weaker and lamer than I was in the past.)

I started doing "Zone 2" training in August because of Peter Attia. It just didn't work for me (trying to improve my HRV). But I wasn't measuring Zone 2 in the "correct" way, rather I used the proxy of heart rate. Attia says you really need to measure lactic acid, and I am loathe to get another device.

I would find it more difficult to get 100 g protein per day if I didn't use whey. Actually, as it is, I usually get around 60 g and rarely get to 100 g. But pea protein may work for you. It's less palatable IME.

My intuitive experience is that more protein in my diet leads to improvements in my strength training, which should translate to improved climbing and fewer injuries. Personally, I have a poor appetite, and it's tough to force down all the food (protein) that is recommended. Oh well! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re VO2 max, currently the only way that is measured is literally to go into a lab (or training facility) and have them work you on a stationery bike with a mask over your face.

However, there's a substitute called the Rockport Walk Test for us fragile elderly people. You can probably do that to get an approximate measure. My caveat is that I think when you do your VO2 max test in a lab, you're probably in a temperature controlled environment. So if you want a good measure it's probably best to do your Rockport Walk Test at around 70 F. Just assuming this.

I've never taken the VO2 max test. I'd like to, but all the facilities seem to be hours away.

PS I would like to hear more of the methylation discussion. Maybe we need a new thread.

PPS A quick pic from my hike on the Millbrook Trail this week - I rarely see these:

Hey dragons! I’d be game for a separate thread. I put that idea out a few years ago, and I know most people here are not interested in the topic of health and diet. I always feel a little guilty posting, but it is part of my Climbing journey, and I assume/hope people just keep on scrolling.

it’s been hard for me to accept that things have changed permanently in my body. But with the stack of recently released books on aging and health along with the weekly emphasis by my registered dietitian I understand that this is the way it has to be. I’m not asking questions anymore. 

To double down on that I feel like I’ve turned a corner in Climbing over the last six weeks. There has to be a base level of fitness to climb this hard, and also some kind of recovery protocol for afterwards. Yesterday I had energy to spare and climbed this route twice and felt great and could’ve just kept on going probably. But by the time I got home, I was limping and sore and it only got worse through the night. I think there are more prudent options than just tossing back some NSAIDS and taking a shot of whiskey. So I continue to do the deep dive.

Right now for that extra protein, I am using a product called the whole feast which completely grosses me out and I can’t think about it. It is a protein powder that is literally “nose to tail“ beef protein. But it tastes great, and it goes down easy, and there’s no allergens in it. I am relieved because of the veggie protein powders and other vegan choices are so loaded with heavy metals most especially arsenic and cadmium.

There is so much to talk about here for those who want to keep going strong.

Hello dragons, thanks for your interest.

I don't do fancy (expensive) metrics at the present; although early next year I might do a VO2 . I follow the recommendations of Inigo San Millan , otherwise known as the "father of zone training":

"If your breathing is so easy that it’s effectively the same as when you’re at rest (e.g. similar to your breathing when walking easily), then you’re likely in Zone 1. If you’re having to take breaths at unnatural points mid-sentence, then you’re in Zone 3."

I try to do at least 45 min. in what I believe is z2  although since I live at 5300 ft. and my daily hikes often include very sudden steep uphill sections ,I know I often ramp into full out glycogen \carb burning, similar to a HiiT situation. Sometimes I use conversations with my occasional training partner , a cross country coach and many years younger than I,  to gauge where I might be. This dude could be running at a good pace and while talking never seems to gasp for air, at altitude. 

I strength train after my Z2 ,per Millan's advice ,although for years I've always done the strength stuff first. I body part train since I don't really like full-body circuit stuff.

Yesterday's back day workout is illustrative:

1. Barbell deadlifts 3x8

2. Barbell rows 3x8

3. Dumbbell flys(bent over) upper back 3x8, middle back 3x8, lower 3x8

4. Incline pushups 5x12

5. Static hangs 3x1 minute 

There ya go. Not counting the hangs , 20 sets targeting the back.

Seeing a porcupine is always a treat.  We have a lot of them here in north eastern PA — and they seem to like the same obscure boulders as I do.

For all you water people - did a fun pnw surf trip in early Nov. Started in Cannon Beach OR - it was a huge stormy mess, I played around on the inside reforms but was too chicken to paddle outside by myself where 15 foot bombs were exploding - the older I get, the less I charge lol, found a beautiful clean slabby right at Westport WA that was easily the highlight of the trip, Further north, La Push was a hurried sunset sesh, it was rocky and getting dark and felt super sharky so I didn’t stay out long, found Tina-sized longboard waves at Sekiu on the strait of Juan de fuca. Olympic Peninsula is a beautiful  part of the world I’d never seen before.  I could see retiring there if the sun was always shining, but then i guess it wouldn’t be a rainforest...lol. Ended at Makah/Cape Flattery which is furthest northwest point in lower 48 and the Makah are a whaling culture, so it felt familiar. Stayed safe, had fun. What more can you ask of a trip?

Cannon Beach, Westport (2), La Push, Sekiu, and Makah:

how does something feel sharky. is it just experience. factors that you recognize as shark bait???? 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

how does something feel sharky. is it just experience. factors that you recognize as shark bait???? 

For me, sharky is a vibe thing. It’s like a beary vibe but without the explicit evidence of fresh tracks and scat. I think we humans have a predator radar hardwired in our brains and depending on where we hang out, we may or may not have a reason to check it. When I’m way out there and hyper-aware of the fact that I’m not at the top of the food chain, it kicks in for me. For sharky: sunset when the sparkly green water goes gray and murky, alone and a long paddle from the beach in a new place, seals around, bait fish jumping, senses start tingling. I’m sure there’s some Hollywood-induced paranoia involved, but if shit feels funky, I’m out.

Sounds like experience  skill. Your old and still here ;) 

Last night my wife, Helen, and I had the pleasure of attending Rgold's 80th birthday party--held, appropriately, at the Gravity Vault gym in Poughkeepsie, NY, not far from the Gunks. Approximately 80 people were there to celebrate the landmark--family, co-workers, friends, and representatives of multiple generations of Gunks climbers. In addition to Rich , whom I hadn't seen in person for about 15 years, it was a chance to reconnect with old friends and to meet some new ones. There were the expected toasts and roasts, while Rich concluded with an exhortation to all of us to try to rebuild the community' --in climbing and the rest of life, that has been significantly dissipated by the events of the past few years.

It was a wonderful event for a most deserving leading member of our 'clan'. My only 'complaint' is that the grades in the gym had not been appropriately 'softened' to accommodate the egos of some of the attendees.

Presuming the attached picture ' makes it', Rich is in the left, me on the right.

Happy birthday Rgold. A picture of legends. Keep going until the end

Alan and Rich - Wonderful to see. Here in CO at the BRC, my small climbing group calls ourselves the gray posse (though one of us - not me - is prematurely gray).

What a wonderful photo!

I see I'm not the only one who wears T-shirts meant for someone much younger!

Happy Birthday RG. have a wonderful year!

Sorry folks. Apparently there is such a thing as a butt lock. In other words, you can click that little box even while scrolling and then the whole thread is locked. Didn’t mean to do that.

I thought I’d take a little hike up the buttress to visit Dave. That’s code for bottle in front of me and Dave Houser’s route.  It’s just one of my favorite places to sit and marinate. 

Early on, I started noticing that the classic routes that I wanted to climb were all associated with Houser’s name. I started asking folks who was Dave Houser and where did he go?  Most old-school climbers, even if they stopped climbing, managed to stay in touch with the Climbing community but no one had seen Dave since 2001, and that was brief. There’s no pictures. No history.  He’s just gone!

Dave wrote to me a few weeks ago and suggested that he’d like to drive out to Joshua Tree and meet. I don’t know if this will ever really happen but I think this is a real wonderful opportunity to finally meet one of the contributors to classic routes in this park.  In the meantime, I have still a few Houser routes to climb and the opportunity to wear my Dave’s Not Here T-shirt a little more. 

The history of this place is so rich, and even though I am a relative newcomer, I don’t want any of it lost.  ❤️

Happy B-Day Rich,

Looks like you had a good one.

Cheers,

Tad

Darn Lori! I figured there was something bad going on - deleted text, innuendo, bad blood- just a simple butt misdial. 

All is good 

And I want to wish Rich a most wonderful happy birthday.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Last night my wife, Helen, and I had the pleasure of attending Rgold's 80th birthday party

Alan, I was there too! What a great event! Sorry I didn't get to meet you. And thanks posting the pic.

Donald Thompsonwrote:

I don't do fancy (expensive) metrics at the present; although early next year I might do a VO2 . I follow the recommendations of Inigo San Millan , otherwise known as the "father of zone training":

...

I strength train after my Z2 ,per Millan's advice ,although for years I've always done the strength stuff first. I body part train since I don't really like full-body circuit stuff.

... Yesterday's back day workout is illustrative ...

Thanks for the extra info, Donald. It's interesting that you're doing strength after Zone 2, now. I've been really loathe to do this, assuming it will cause my form to get sloppy, and wind up either with injury or just poorer strength. How's your strength training going after doing Zone 2? Notice any differences? Also, do you have a specific goal for Zone 2 training?

My interest in Zone 2 was specifically to try to improve my HRV (and maybe RHR). Are you keeping track of either of these? I'd be curious to know if you have seen changes. I used heart rate as a proxy for Zone 2 and found the training did not help at all. Possibly (probably?) I wasn't actually doing Zone 2. It did look to me like my max HR slightly increased: I saw measurements of 170 bpm several times when doing VO2 max training, something I haven't seen in years. The caveat is that I haven't tried to do VO2 max training before this year. So maybe it was just the VO2 max training that produced that change.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Darn Lori! I figured there was something bad going on - deleted text, innuendo, bad blood- just a simple butt misdial. 

All is good 

And I want to wish Rich a most wonderful happy birthday.

Well, the truth is I was sliding down Comic Book on my butt, with my cell in my back pocket.  Who knows who all I butt dialed and deleted!    I should not be allowed to own a phone.  

I also hadn't read the post by Alan.  Gosh this warms my heart.    The happiest of birthdays to you, Rich... and thank you for all you have contributed here.  And what a joy to think of 80 fellow climbers all getting together to celebrate you, and reconnect with each other.  

It's taken me some time to get used to the idea that we are not irrelevant, and that there is still life to live--most especially you life-long climbers who have aged so beautifully and who impart so much wisdom.  

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Weird thing, today while scrambling, I felt my entire lower body rebel.  A few weeks ago I hurt my knee while climbing, I finally called my doctor and described the pain.  "It sounds like you irritated your meniscus."  I like 'irritated' better than 'tore'.  So I have carried on.  But today, looking downhill from my perch, I realized I was in a danger zone. Everything turned to gravel, I was sliding all the way, I refused to bend my knee so it got dicey.  I STILL don't know what to expect of my body, when to carry on, when to back way off.

What's everyone cooking?  I saw a rib-eye recipe today, baked in kosher salt... looked so good I think we're going to try it.  And I bought a huge onion, so I can play around in the kitchen with making gluten free onion rings.