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Most downgraded and upgraded routes.
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I have never seen the guidebook that had Duet Direct at 5.7, but I heard George Hurley talking about it one day, so I asked Michael about it . He grinned a little and said he said he "bridged" the whole thing and there's no single move harder than 5.7...lol. That's how it got the 5.7 rating. I led it onsight in 1985 or so, with first generation Friends. Up until then I had lead everything I climbed anywhere with just the three original sizes, one each. I took two extras for Duet Direct and it felt like cheating. The last time I was on it with my friend Jacques, who wanted to onsight it so bad he wouldn't even take any beta. Our first time climbing together, he punched it out. Ahead of us were two guys about my age, who managed it handily, but not without effort, one was Mr. Kemple Sr., and they thought it could be 11b. It did seem harder than 5.7 to me. Alan did you first do it with hexes or wooden wedges? Either would be most impressive! Edit to add: Of course I had stoppers too. |
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I have NO problem calling that thing 11b ;) |
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Did it with Mike Hartrich on the sharp end, so a free ride ( well, except for cleaning the gear) for me. Don’t remember what year we did it, but probably mid-70s, so pre-cams. |
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The Texas Flake is described in Ropers 1964 guide as" a class-4 pitch leads up the chimney behind Texas Flake." Modern guides give it 5.8. That one jumps an entire class + 8. |
Aaron Kwrote: Yeah, but shoes are aid so it’s still V17 in our hearts |
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Wasn't Borne to be Wild / My Idea of Fun downgraded from 5.14c to like 5.12d? When Paul Borne put it up he said the hardest route in the world was in Josh, and when Sean Myles onsighted the second ascent, he called it 12d/13a. It's seen it's 3rd / 4th ascent in the last few years, and I'm pretty sure the consensus is that it's nowhere near 5.14, much less 14d. |
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Dunks on deck I think was rated v14 by the fa but then downgraded to v9 by a repeater on Instagram https://www.mountainproject.com/route/123294143/dunks-on-deck https://www.instagram.com/p/CrJQR6lJYB4/ |
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https://www.facebook.com/reel/343874351579564 I think this is a video of Pamela Shanti Pack placing the bolt on Kill Artist. I have huge respect for her, and do not mean to sound like a keyboard warrior, but in the video description it says "YES that is a crack above me and No it does not take gear? Well what the hell is she hanging off of then? If anyone is bored lets revive this forum. What are the most upgraded or downgraded boulder problems as well. One that comes to mind for me is Quantum Mechanics in Leavenworth. Originally given a "Double digit V grade" now is settling around V7. |
Long Rangerwrote: Recent nugget podcast with James was really good. Cool to hear the whole story. |
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Not anything hard or even the biggest grade change, but one that I personally encountered: mountainproject.com/route/1… F*%K Me (apparently the epithet the FA screamed out while putting the route up) is a real short, mungy crack climb that boasts a small roof and maybe 5 feet of hardly strictly off-width. The FA, Ron Anderson, claimed the route was a 5.11c. In all fairness, per his report, I guess he’d been pretty high on Thai Stick, some kind of weed he could get ahold of in ‘79, when he put the thing up. A frequenter of the area, I had to check it out after old Ron had been crowing about the route on the Supertopo forum. Good and cragging drunk (what can I say, I had a problem at the time) I fairly easily onsighted the climb. Cool! I onsight 5.11c trad now! Well, even in my addled mind, I knew that wasn’t a thing. Just to make sure, I probably pounded another beer and then toproped the climb clean in running shoes in the same session. Yeah. It seems like what little consensus there is now has it at 5.10b or maybe c. If you’re ever at River Rock near Reno, NV, give her a go, and, who knows, maybe the thing holds its grade when you’re not high or drunk off your ass. |
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The classic sandbag in DC is Silver spot at carderock. Put up by Mike Bank in 1962, historically it was considered 5.10, but now it is considered 12+ or even 13 by some (including MP). I tried it once but all I can say is its pretty dang hard. |
Giovanni Rattiwrote: While obviously I can't say for certain, but given that this route is at Carderock, I think that there is a very high likelihood that a key foothold/nubbin or 2 from the FA either broke off or has been polished to oblivion, upping the grade considerably. Though it was undoubtedly a hard climb when Banks first did it---but still likely not as hard as it currently is. |
Shaun Johnsonwrote: Wasn't the "original" quantum mechanics more of a direct line? There are crimps to the left of the V7 start that people start on for the harder version. I could definitely be wrong though.. |
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Lion of judah v9 was downgraded to v2 after this guy failed on the v3 adjacent to it and flashed Lion of judah. Seems a fair assessment to me |
Andrew Delidukawrote: I do remember hearing something like that from Cole Allen back in the day. . I in no way am implying Cole was inflating the grade, I know for a fact that he was capable of sending and grading double digit problems. The Leavenworth boulders were likely covered in moss when they were first discovered, mix that with a desire to not just scrub the whole boulder clean, and it is not surprising if slightly different variations and new holds appear. Either way, that is a super good line. I never got the send on the V7 version, although I did try it a handful of times. |
Nick Budkawrote: Interesting, and random that this is also in Leavenworth. |
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'Sloppy Seconds' at Squamish now appears to be known as 'Sloppy Gordie'. Could the latter be a reference to the accuracy of the grading in his guidebook? In my copy of said tome Sloppy Seconds is rated 5.6; in MP Sloppy Gordie is 5.10b. |
Bryanwrote: This was The Forever War. It was originally TRd and given 10+ by Bob Scarpelli, then had bolts added and was still given 13b R by - surprise surprise, Pam Shanti Pack, then re-downgraded to mid 11 G sans bolts by a variety of folks. |
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Modern times and the dangler both 5.8+ are given 5.10c and 5.10a respectively in the current guidebook. The dangler is totally 5.8 all day long, and modern times probably goes at 5.8+, just gotta milk the rests. |
Nick Budkawrote: Utter nonsense; quit spraying. |
