Recommendations for a summer climbing destination that is not Squamish

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

How is the jt/ puppy lover war gonna go? Are you mad that I maybe implied your proj was soft? Ruff ruff

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

How is the jt/puppy lover war gonna go? Are you mad that I maybe implied your proj was soft? Ruff ruff

I only choose soft projects   If you ever actually called any of my projects soft you’d know that, ice cream boi 

If you do end up going towards Wyoming and SD, the old school trad around Mt Rushmore and Custer SP are so much fun and a really unique setting. I spent two weeks in Tensleep which is fun but but might lack some variety, and I ended up wishing I spent more time in SD instead. Climbing the Cathedral Spires and around Lake Sylvan was such a blast and there are hardly any crowds to compete with.

Sam Haughwrote:

If you do end up going towards Wyoming and SD, the old school trad around Mt Rushmore and Custer SP are so much fun and a really unique setting. I spent two weeks in Tensleep which is fun but but might lack some variety, and I ended up wishing I spent more time in SD instead. Climbing the Cathedral Spires and around Lake Sylvan was such a blast and there are hardly any crowds to compete with.

I agree with this, however August might be scorching there

Cory Bwrote:

Close to your home, lots of quiet lesser known climbing that are quite good

1) Vancouver Island -- Horne Lake, Crest Creek Crags, Saltspring island, Quadra island, Wapiti valley

2) Powell River - Eldred valley and crags near the city (there is some 5 star climbing here, and lots of new development not reported on the internet, both sport climbing and trad. I HIGHLY reccommoend this place if you like to escape crowds)

3) Bella Coola 

4) Valhalla range

The Bow valley does have pretty fun sport climbing, If you haven't climbed in the Canadian rockies I would suggest that more than heading down to Wyoming or California in August. In the US much of the mountain west will be very hot in August and/or on fire. I personally always head to Canada to climb for August, because I find it simply too hot here (I'm a Canadian ex-pat).

1) I had a great time climbing a few days on Quadra Island in August of 2021, and Campbell River was where my parents and I first lived when we arrived in Canada as refugees so it was nice to check out that place again and see how much it had changed over the years.  Almost every other Vancouver Island climbing spot you listed is a place that I already have the guidebook for and am interested in checking out some day.

2) I was interested in checking out this place some day... But in 2021 I leant my Powell River guidebook to friends for their climbing trip there. They came back saying the place and the climbs were very overgrown. That really diminished my interest in going there. Maybe they were just unlucky and happened to do the crappy overgrown climbs?

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Bow valley has some absolutely amazing climbs but if your coming from squamish it just be ready for absolute garbage quality rock. Grassi Lakes and ?Cougar Mountain I broke a hold on almost every route. Grassi lakes even has signs and fencing about people who died from rock fall. Absolutely mega classic routes though. 

Yeah, I heard that area gets nicknamed "The Chossies" in lieu of The Rockies. Is it true about most of the climbin spots there having long approaches?

Chris Smallwrote:

Beyond Cory's suggestions, I would include Kelowna and Vernon which have areas adjacent to creeks (KLO creek, Rose Canyon) or at higher elevation (Aberdeen Columns, The Boulderfields) to beat the August heat . Revelstoke is another place which is less known but highly appealing. 

We spent a few days climbing at Aberdeen Columns a few summers ago. I will check out Kelowna climbing some day.

I enjoy climbing in Revelstoke. We climbed there in '13, '18, and '20. Looking forward to the new guidebook, whenever Ruedi will be done with it.

Khoiwrote:

Yeah, I heard that area gets nicknamed "The Chossies" in lieu of The Rockies. Is it true about most of the climbin spots they’re having long approaches?

It really depends but I would say that yes the classics are awful approaches just really awful. Grassi lakes is super easy approach, sunshine in banff isn’t bad but most the other famous classics yes.

Old lady Hwrote:

COR is hot when it's hot, but that's what mornings and evenings were invented for. And a swimming pool for the afternoon. I've been there in almost every month now, including stinking hot temps. Even had snow and too hot in the same visit, last year.

Can't really help much with the climbing destinations part, I've also gone to Hells Canyon in August, but I do know where you could get a meal, with AC, if you're passing through Boise.

Have fun!

H.

EDIT to add, if you are okay with ignoring the heat/flames/smoke part, have you been to the Fins yet? Or, Massacre rocks before it gets unbolted? There's also the Sawtooths to consider, unless you've done that.

No, I haven't been to any of those places yet. Perhaps some day...

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Apples to oranges, especially given what your style might be. Ten Sleep 12’s, while often vacation graded, are fairly inconsistent IMO. There are just so many 12’s I think it’s easy to cherry pick ones that fit your climbing style/strengths the best. Overall, if you like technical limestone climbing (i.e. smaller feet on pockets and crimps) then you may find it soft. Whereas if you excel at over hanging thuggy routes like in the gym or RRG then you may find the grades pretty on par or even challenging. YMMV

While Ten Sleep is a good recommendation, August in Ten Sleep can be pretty hot lower in the canyon and many areas below Downtown (a crag) are off the table most days.

I would add Tuolumne and Tahoe area to your list as well. Especially if you would consider adding bouldering to your agenda, even if not there is a plethora of absolutely amazing roped climbing there 

The style that I absolutely EXCEL at is overhanging jug hauls with no dynos and ideally no deadpoints, where every move can be done static off of good footholds - bonus if it's a loooong route because I have fairly good stamina in this niche. I have heard over and over that the Red River Gorge is where I must go for this, and it has been on my MUST GO List ever since I first heard about it many years ago. I came sssooooo close to going there one time but it got vetoed as an option because one person in our group of 3 had just returned from there. Fortunately, this October I will FINALLY be going there!

I am fine with technical climbs on pockets and crimps (after all, I do make it a mission to go to Smith Rock every single year...), but I do not do as well compared to juggy overhanging climbs.

I do not care for bouldering. In my 16 years of rock climbing I have been bouldering outside twice. The first time was to try it out with a friend from the gym who is super into bouldering and was our personal tour guide for the best boulder problems within our abilities in the Squamish Grand Wall Boulders. The second time wasn't even planned! I showed up to work to find that the power was out so we had the day off. I knew that some of my friends were just about to head up to Squamish to go bouldering so I joined them. I spent most of the day napping on one of their crash pads.

JCMwrote:

For Tensleep: there's a huge number of good routes, and a lot of them are pretty interchangeable. There is some variability between walls - Downpour Wall is a bit steeper, French Cattle Ranch has nice blue rock with more edges than pockets, and so on. So it may come down to what you prefer, and sampling the various different sectors. If you are looking for a high-quality, entry-level 12a, two common places to look are Cocaine Rodeo and various options at the Shinto Wall. Beyond these, the Classics Page on Mountainproject seems to offer a good overview of some of the best and most popular routes. Theres lots of good options at all grades.

For the onsight-inclined - Ten Sleep is a great spot for that. One of my favorite places for onsight mileage, actually. There are a huge number of routes of fairly similar style. The rock and sequences generally pretty reasonable to read on the onsight.  Once you get used to the area, you can onsight at a fairly high level (vacation grades help with that too...). And because of the quantity and density of routes available, you can often find a wall with a cluster of routes in your onsight range, and just climb out the whole wall in a day. Good times.

In terms of areas and conditions, and others have noted Ten Sleep Canyon stretches across a pretty wide elevation band. In summer you'll want to be climbing in the upper canyon at higher elevation. And of course, climbing only in the shade. This is all pretty easy to accomplish though. The most famous and classic areas are generally in the upper canyon anyway. You'll likely spend most (or all) of your trip on the mostly-continuous stretch of east-facing walls from the Downpour Wall to the French Cattle Ranch. These are at high elevation and get afternoon shade; nice in the summer. The lower canyon is kinda hot in mid-summer, and worth avoiding. 

The standard Tensleep climbing schedule is to sleep in, laze around all morning, eat lunch at camp, then hike up to the cliff at around 1pm. Climb until dark. Best conditions are in the evening. It is a pretty nice vacation schedule.

Thanks! I will definitely check out your recommendations.

Any walls with overhanging jug hauls?   

Sounds like I can look forwards to pushing my onsight records... SWEET!

Any recommendations on campsites? I've done a bit of research, and as much as I loathe to give Louie Anderson my money given his route "development" antics it seems like his Ten Sleep Rock Ranch is a serious contender when it comes to camping options. I will grudgingly do so if it is our best option.

Again, thank you for all the great beta! Much appreciated!

Khoiwrote:

The style that I absolutely EXCEL at is overhanging jug hauls with no dynos and ideally no deadpoints, where every move can be done static off of good footholds - bonus if it's a loooong route because I have fairly good stamina in this niche. I have heard over and over that the Red River Gorge is where I must go for this...

I am fine with technical climbs on pockets and crimps (after all, I do make it a mission to go to Smith Rock every single year...), but I do not do as well compared to juggy overhanging climbs.

Ten Sleep is definitely more oriented toward vert-tech climbing on pockets and crimps. It's friendlier than Smith in various ways, but still in the same general category in climbing style. Its an awesome place and worth going, but set your climbing style expectations accordingly.

If you are more interested in steep enduro jug hauls, consider a trip to Utah instead. Specifically, Maple and the Unitas. Maple is nice in the summer - ambient temperatures a smidge warm,but there are lots of shady crags and the air is dry (I've done multiple weeks-long trips there in summer and always had pretty good weather). The climbing style is steep endurance on big smooth rounded cobble jugs.  It's arguably a steeper and juggier place than even the Red (though also chossier...). Super fun, and absolutely worth visiting if steep endurance if your niche. I think of Ten Sleep as a better destination for the general case than Maple, but for steep endurance afficionados Maple is the spot.

A trip mostly to Maple could be augmented with a couple days side excursion at the end to the Unitas. Great alpine scenery, and some steep quartzite jug haul sport climbs. Sessions (12a) is the mega classic.

In considering Ten Sleep vs Maple, it mostly a matter of what kind of climbing you and your partners are more excited about. Though Ten Sleep does get points for better camping and better scenery.

Re: Ten Sleep camping. The MP page covers this well. So I'll just quote that section here:

WHERE TO STAY:

-Dispersed Old Road camping- Many free sites are available...please tread lightly and use provided porta potties! Road opens June 15th annually

-Leigh Creek Campground- USFS campground with a great setting, toilets, water and trash services. Pay campground

-Meadowlark Lodge- Friendly owners, free tent camping, and good deals on cabins. A higher elevation place to stay to avoid the summer heat! Close to the high country crags + food and beer on tap.

-Ten Sleep Brewery- One of Ten Sleep's great new additions. A large camping area can be your home away from home with a beer garden for a backyard.

-Ten Sleep Rock Ranch- The Anderson's plush camping hideaway. A great place to meet travelling climbers and find a partner. $8/night

ClimbingOnwrote:

The High Sierra in general. Base out of/near Tuolumne and go to the Hulk, Whitney, etc.

The Bugaboos of course merit consideration.

If you go to Whitney. The left of Whitney is Keelers Needle. 5.10 face,crack. I have always wanted to try that one. Probably harder then the Diamond in CO. If U or any others do it. pls send me pics. 

Kevin Worrallwrote:

Tuolumne Meadows and surrounding high country

BINGO perfect. Camping is not to bad there. but forgive me haven't been back that direction since 2009. Just make sure to bring a trash rope to hang your food in the trees ;) The routes are many across that part of the Sierras. One thing I noticed about Tualame (sp) lots of R rated finishes. but at 5.8-9 shouldnt be a prob for U. Or maybe I just got lucky on the climbs there lol. Just note reserve your permit there well before U go. (at least I assume it's now permit only. maybe?)

JCMwrote:

This is a bit of thread drift, but I'm somewhat intrigued by what Khoi dislikes about Squamish, versus likes about those other areas. Not questioning this in any way, just always interested in what causes people to like one area and dislike another. The variety in climbing areas - and in individual climber's preferences - is one thing that makes this sport interesting. 

I find Squamish to be pretty varied. The rock and style in the main Squamish areas isn't my favorite either - the crystalline slabs and cracks in the Bluffs, much of the Chief, etc.  But I love the featured thin faces of Murrin and the blocky sport climbing at Chek.

This somewhat informs the recommendation, or not, of other granite areas like Tahoe, Mammoth, and so on.

While I love climbing around Tahoe (it is my home area now) and NorCal granite generally, I find it to be generally reminiscent of Squamish's rock and climbing styles, at least in the broad strokes of both being grey west coast mountain granite (as compared to the brown weathered desert granite of City of Rocks and SoCal).  There's lots of variety within Tahoe, of course.  The featured cracks and faces of Donner remind me a lot of the rock and style of Murrin. The blocky metamorphic rock around Emeralds/Bowman reminds me of Chek. The sheer walls and pure crack style of Sugarloaf (or Yosemite Valley, for that matter) are somewhat like the Chief. Lovers Leap and Tuolumne offer something different from Squamish, with their dikes and knobs (respectively), but broad strokes they are still grey west coast granite.

So even though each area offers something unique, if Khoi wants something that is a big change from Squamish granite, I don't think that NorCal granite is the place to find that. If they hate Squamish granite, I find it unlikely that they would love NorCal granite. Same can be said of other BC granite such as Powell River (mentioned earlier in thread).

Limestone in Wyoming or Alberta, though, that is something very different.

Is the snowpack going in SLT be gone by then. Glad I missed that winter. hear Kirkwood had over 600 inches base. Same as Mammoth. As far as SLT goes the climbing is good. I loved phantom spire outside of SLT

So I have to know what Squamish even means lol. Treat me as a rookie lol. Just never heard that term before. thx :)

Khoiwrote:

Thanks! I will definitely check out your recommendations.

Any walls with overhanging jug hauls?   

Sounds like I can look forwards to pushing my onsight records... SWEET!

Any recommendations on campsites? I've done a bit of research, and as much as I loathe to give Louie Anderson my money given his route "development" antics it seems like his Ten Sleep Rock Ranch is a serious contender when it comes to camping options. I will grudgingly do so if it is our best option.

Again, thank you for all the great beta! Much appreciated!

If you like juggy overhanging climbing which is not chossy and havent climbed  at lake louise you definitely have missed out on one of canadas best crags. Difficult logistics with the tourist crowds nowadays but worth it in my opinion

JCMwrote:

WHERE TO STAY:

-Dispersed Old Road camping- Many free sites are available...please tread lightly and use provided porta potties! Road opens June 15th annually

Good options, many bake in the sun and get dusted out. The lower and higher sites are better than the middle ones right off the road. Keep in mind free dispersed camping can be had nearly anywhere in the entire canyon, not just the old road, so please don‘t try and camp with strangers unless they invite you. Past meadowlark lodge for example has a dozen or so sites, and even more higher up. Which, In August, might be the ticket as they are closer to the “steep” crags. 

-Leigh Creek Campground- USFS campground with a great setting, toilets, water and trash services. Pay campground

Great toilet. If anyone gives you trouble you can kindly remind them of that federal taxes pay for the toilets. Trash pick up is funded differently, so don’t use their dumpster even if unlocked. This is what the campground host there told me a few years ago. Boulder creek campground is closer to higher crags and cooler in August.

-Meadowlark Lodge- Friendly owners, free tent camping, and good deals on cabins. A higher elevation place to stay to avoid the summer heat! Close to the high country crags + food and beer on tap.

Was not aware of anyone ever tent camping there. Also “food and beer on tap“, while technically correct, is a stretch if you looking for a night-out-kinda-vibe. Go in town if you want a real beer on top and food. 

-Ten Sleep Brewery- One of Ten Sleep's great new additions. A large camping area can be your home away from home with a beer garden for a backyard.

Bakes in the heat. I would personally never camp there without a camping vessel that provides A/C. Beer is amazing, and people are amazing. Spend your time and money there, but I would not camp unless you get too drunk. 

-Ten Sleep Rock Ranch- The Anderson's plush camping hideaway. A great place to meet travelling climbers and find a partner. $8/night

A good place to meet partners if going solo. If you have a partner I would never stay there unless you need internet and/or other amenities, are the kinda person who needs to go into town each day, or like the party/big group scene. It reminds me of Miguel’s, but with less culture. 

JCMwrote:

This is a bit of thread drift, but I'm somewhat intrigued by what Khoi dislikes about Squamish, versus likes about those other areas. Not questioning this in any way, just always interested in what causes people to like one area and dislike another. The variety in climbing areas - and in individual climber's preferences - is one thing that makes this sport interesting. 

I find Squamish to be pretty varied. The rock and style in the main Squamish areas isn't my favorite either - the crystalline slabs and cracks in the Bluffs, much of the Chief, etc.  But I love the featured thin faces of Murrin and the blocky sport climbing at Chek.

This somewhat informs the recommendation, or not, of other granite areas like Tahoe, Mammoth, and so on.

As I've been saying for years:

SQUAMISH IS AN OVERLY VEGETATED RAIN FOREST - and the vegetation is winning... Some crags are getting noticeably overgrown. Almost any face climb that doesn't get a crap ton of regular ascents will moss right back up in a few seasons. Even some face climbs that do get regular ascents still moss up everywhere but where the critical holds are. It doesn't matter that a crack climb gets hundreds of ascents a season, over the fall and winter the vegetation from above will rain organic debris on it, filling up the crack in time for the first person to climb it in the spring to have to use their nut tool to excavate the crack as they climb.

It has the shortest climbing season of any major international climbing destination. (Seriously, I tried to think of any major international "climbing" destination, as in people from around the world get on a plane to climb there, with a shorter season and the next contender I came up with is Patagonia - and that's not even the same type of climbing!) This is where some locals pipe in and say how they climb in Squamish over 150 days a year because they know that the exposed friction slabs dry out within hours, but do you really want to be doing the same dozen friction slabs over and over and over and over again? I think the reason why more people don't realize this is that most non-locals will visit in July or August when you are less likely to be rained out. They have a good time climbing there and leave with a positive impression of Squamish climbing. Whereas locals living in the area know that for a solid 6-7 months in Squamish days where the rock is wet outnumber days were the rock is dry. And then there's another 3-4 months where it's iffy for getting dry rock.

As for the climbing itself:

The cracks are too often flaring, irregular, or awkward. A lot of those so-call "cracks" wouldn't even be cracks if it weren't for decades of piton pounding and removing. You rarely get the nice splitter cracks that make for metres upon metres of great jamming like you do on desert sandstone or on basalt. Much of the granite is glacier polished.

Maybe if I climbed 5.11 trad or harder, and, maybe if I were better at friction slab climbing and better at being able to use the smeary features that proliferate granite domes I might appreciate Squamish more, but even then Squamish would still be an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season.

However, I now must add that I have spent the past 3 years doing more sport climbing in Squamish than I have ever done in my 16 years of climbing... and I... like it. The vast majority of Squamish sport climbing is on rock that is far more featured.

Squamish is still an overly vegetated rainforest with a super short climbing season though.

[snip]

So even though each area offers something unique, if Khoi wants something that is a big change from Squamish granite, I don't think that NorCal granite is the place to find that. If they hate Squamish granite, I find it unlikely that they would love NorCal granite. Same can be said of other BC granite such as Powell River (mentioned earlier in thread).

Limestone in Wyoming or Alberta, though, that is something very different.

Yeah.

One year we flew to the Gunks to climb, but got rained out after a few days, and the forecast for the rest of our days there was dismal. So we looked up the nearest dry rock. The result was 2 options: Red River Gorge or North Carolina. One of us had just gotten back from RRG so she vetoed that option which meant we were gonna drive down to North Carolina. I bought the guidebooks for the area from Rock and Snow and the NC destinations that caught our attention were Moore's Wall, Lineville Gorge, Stone Mountain, and Pilot Mountain. I saw photos of the climbing at Stone Mountain and it looked to me like a dead ringer for climbing on the Stawamus Chief and Slhanay and the Malamute and the Papoose (all in Squamish) so I vetoed Stone Mountain.

We ended up climbing at Moore's Wall, Pilot Mountain, and 2 areas of Linville Gorge.

Like I've said, my favourite climbs are juggy overhanging climbs, but, my all-time favourite climbs are juggy overhanging TRAD climbs! Hence why The Gunks is one of my favourite climbing destinations. Well... Moore's Wall turned out to be kinda like The Gunks but on steroids! I had a GREAT time climbing at Moore's Wall! And I enjoyed climbing at Pilot Mountain and both of the areas of Linville Gorge that we went to.

It was a pleasant surprise. Getting rained out of one of my favourite climbing spots resulted in us going climbing in a state none of us had ever visited and the end result was that we all had a great time.

BTW, I must ask: how do you quote more than 1 person in a single post? I tried opening separate tabs for each person I reply to and then cutting an pasting it all into a single post, but the end result is that the quote formatting gets messed up and it is not possible to tell who I am replying to.

Tom Rangitschwrote:

I would vote for Tensleep if you decide on a southern tour. You could also check out the other cliffs in the Big Horns like Crazy Woman and the stuff around Sheridan.  Trevor Bowman's guide is pretty good for the eastern Big Horns.  Lander is actually west of your route if you drive from Tensleep to the Laramie/Vedauwoo area and it would be a little out of your way.   Vedauwoo is an acquired taste, but has some really nice single pitch cracks and not all of them are off width.  I prefer Lander to Tensleep only because of the variety of angles and the better year round access.  Summer is definitely cooler in Tensleep and Vedauwoo is too.

*edited to correctly read that Lander is west not east

Geez... It never occurred to me to look into how much of the climbing at Vedauwoo is not offwidth! Good to know! Thanks for all the beta!