Recommendations for a summer climbing destination that is not Squamish

Tim Brattenwrote:

City of Rocks

City of Rocks is my favourite granite climbing spot! 

Squamish made me think for a long time that I hate climbing on granite. Tahquitz hinted to me that there could be granite out there that I actually like climbing on. City of Rocks and Holcomb Valley Pinnacles showed me that there actually is granite that I like climbing on. It appears that extensive weathering is the key to transforming granite to make it more appealing to me for climbing.

I climbed at City of Rocks last year. But for this trip I am prioritizing places that I have never been to.

TaylorPwrote:

Go to Ten Sleep and you'll be climbing 12s easy (and having a great time doing it). Easy camping and a beautiful spot. I had to chase shade last July, but that's easy due to the orientation of the canyon. Just depends if you want morning shade or afternoon

What makes you say that? Are the 12s in Ten Sleep soft??? Like Red Rocks soft???

I am down to chase the shade, and I expect we will be given that I'll be late August.

JCMwrote:

Based on all this, Ten Sleep or Canmore. Both are great. Look at areas on MP, and go to whichever one sounds more appealing. Both areas deserve a full two weeks; I'd recommend choosing one an not getting sidetracked with too many other stops. I.e. if you want to go to Ten Sleep, just go to Ten Sleep and don't try to visit Lander also (which is too hot and sunny in the summer anyway). Two weeks is just barely enough time to get a proper taste of one of these mega-destinations.

If I had to suggest one, I'd probably say Ten Sleep just for all the great super-soft 12a's that will feel good to add to your tick list. Only kinda throwing shade at Ten Sleep here - the 12a's are plentiful, fun, and approachable. Lots of good 10s for onsight mileage also, if that is your preference.

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A third area that is a valid contender is Mammoth Lakes, CA. This is a good option if you want a mix of sport and trad. Mammoth as a home base, with ability to make excursions to Tuolumne, Pine Creek, Rock Creek, etc. Downside is that it is largely granite, so not as big a departure from the Squamish climbing you are used to (as compared to Ten Sleep limestone pockets).

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Many of the other places people are suggesting are backcountry / alpine rock areas, which sounds like it's not your thing.

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Re: Spearfish. I would not drive past Ten Sleep to go to Spearfish. Not that there is anything wrong with Spearfish, but Ten Sleep is closer to you, a larger destination, and will have better summer conditions.

For Wyoming Ten Sleep would be my focus, and I would be fine if we spent almost the entire time there. I have friends who live in Laramie, and if I can get our schedules to align then it'd be nice to visit them. I figured that I we do visit them then maybe sample a bit of climbing in Laramie and maybe lander as well since they would be on the way.

Oh! So there ARE super soft 12a's in Ten Sleep! Good to know! Any recommendations for some super soft 12s? And feel free to throw recommendations for good 10's as well! I am far too obsessed with onsighting for my own good...

I'll add Mammoth/Tuolumne to the list of potential summer destinations.

Thanks for the heads up about Spearfish!

EDIT: this 3 posts per thread per day is really annoying given that I created this thread...

COR is hot when it's hot, but that's what mornings and evenings were invented for. And a swimming pool for the afternoon. I've been there in almost every month now, including stinking hot temps. Even had snow and too hot in the same visit, last year.

Can't really help much with the climbing destinations part, I've also gone to Hells Canyon in August, but I do know where you could get a meal, with AC, if you're passing through Boise.

Have fun!

H.

EDIT to add, if you are okay with ignoring the heat/flames/smoke part, have you been to the Fins yet? Or, Massacre rocks before it gets unbolted? There's also the Sawtooths to consider, unless you've done that.

Marc801 Cwrote:

You're joking, right?

He said "24 drive".  Google says it's 26 to Duluth.  He's got 2 weeks, so make a road trip out of it.  Recommendation is mostly based on weather - almost anywhere can get hot that time of year, but north shore will stay reasonable.  

Khoiwrote:

What makes you say that? Are the 12s in Ten Sleep soft??? Like Red Rocks soft???

I am down to chase the shade, and I expect we will be given that I'll be late August.

Apples to oranges, especially given what your style might be. Ten Sleep 12’s, while often vacation graded, are fairly inconsistent IMO. There are just so many 12’s I think it’s easy to cherry pick ones that fit your climbing style/strengths the best. Overall, if you like technical limestone climbing (i.e. smaller feet on pockets and crimps) then you may find it soft. Whereas if you excel at over hanging thuggy routes like in the gym or RRG then you may find the grades pretty on par or even challenging. YMMV

While Ten Sleep is a good recommendation, August in Ten Sleep can be pretty hot lower in the canyon and many areas below Downtown (a crag) are off the table most days.

I would add Tuolumne and Tahoe area to your list as well. Especially if you would consider adding bouldering to your agenda, even if not there is a plethora of absolutely amazing roped climbing there 

Cory Bwrote:

Close to your home, lots of quiet lesser known climbing that are quite good

1) Vancouver Island -- Horne Lake, Crest Creek Crags, Saltspring island, Quadra island, Wapiti valley

2) Powell River - Eldred valley and crags near the city (there is some 5 star climbing here, and lots of new development not reported on the internet, both sport climbing and trad. I HIGHLY reccommoend this place if you like to escape crowds)

3) Bella Coola 

4) Valhalla range

The Bow valley does have pretty fun sport climbing, If you haven't climbed in the Canadian rockies I would suggest that more than heading down to Wyoming or California in August. In the US much of the mountain west will be very hot in August and/or on fire. I personally always head to Canada to climb for August, because I find it simply too hot here (I'm a Canadian ex-pat).

+1 for Powell River / Eldred Valley - went there last year and it was amazing! 

I'm going to Bella Coola this summer and can't wait.  BC the wonderland! 

Khoiwrote:

Oh! So there ARE super soft 12a's in Ten Sleep! Good to know! Any recommendations for some super soft 12s? And feel free to throw recommendations for good 10's as well! I am far too obsessed with onsighting for my own good...

For Tensleep: there's a huge number of good routes, and a lot of them are pretty interchangeable. There is some variability between walls - Downpour Wall is a bit steeper, French Cattle Ranch has nice blue rock with more edges than pockets, and so on. So it may come down to what you prefer, and sampling the various different sectors. If you are looking for a high-quality, entry-level 12a, two common places to look are Cocaine Rodeo and various options at the Shinto Wall. Beyond these, the Classics Page on Mountainproject seems to offer a good overview of some of the best and most popular routes. Theres lots of good options at all grades.

For the onsight-inclined - Ten Sleep is a great spot for that. One of my favorite places for onsight mileage, actually. There are a huge number of routes of fairly similar style. The rock and sequences generally pretty reasonable to read on the onsight.  Once you get used to the area, you can onsight at a fairly high level (vacation grades help with that too...). And because of the quantity and density of routes available, you can often find a wall with a cluster of routes in your onsight range, and just climb out the whole wall in a day. Good times.

In terms of areas and conditions, and others have noted Ten Sleep Canyon stretches across a pretty wide elevation band. In summer you'll want to be climbing in the upper canyon at higher elevation. And of course, climbing only in the shade. This is all pretty easy to accomplish though. The most famous and classic areas are generally in the upper canyon anyway. You'll likely spend most (or all) of your trip on the mostly-continuous stretch of east-facing walls from the Downpour Wall to the French Cattle Ranch. These are at high elevation and get afternoon shade; nice in the summer. The lower canyon is kinda hot in mid-summer, and worth avoiding. 

The standard Tensleep climbing schedule is to sleep in, laze around all morning, eat lunch at camp, then hike up to the cliff at around 1pm. Climb until dark. Best conditions are in the evening. It is a pretty nice vacation schedule.

Index is the only crag I can think of, where the classics do not tend to be the softest climbs of the grade...even then climax control lol. Almost every route listed as classic for North Bend is the softest of the grade (Bust a move, Rainy Day, Culture Shock, Pyschos). I also think walls that tend to be easier to onsight tend to be perceived as easier. I don't really think the difference between fear and loathing and a Mt. Charleston or Blue Diamond cave 5.12a is as big as the internet makes it out, just red rocks is way more straight forward place to onsight. 

Khoiwrote:

City of Rocks is my favourite granite climbing spot! 

Squamish made me think for a long time that I hate climbing on granite. Tahquitz hinted to me that there could be granite out there that I actually like climbing on. City of Rocks and Holcomb Valley Pinnacles showed me that there actually is granite that I like climbing on. It appears that extensive weathering is the key to transforming granite to make it more appealing to me for climbing.

I climbed at City of Rocks last year. But for this trip I am prioritizing places that I have never been to.

This is a bit of thread drift, but I'm somewhat intrigued by what Khoi dislikes about Squamish, versus likes about those other areas. Not questioning this in any way, just always interested in what causes people to like one area and dislike another. The variety in climbing areas - and in individual climber's preferences - is one thing that makes this sport interesting. 

I find Squamish to be pretty varied. The rock and style in the main Squamish areas isn't my favorite either - the crystalline slabs and cracks in the Bluffs, much of the Chief, etc.  But I love the featured thin faces of Murrin and the blocky sport climbing at Chek.

This somewhat informs the recommendation, or not, of other granite areas like Tahoe, Mammoth, and so on.

J T wrote:

I would add Tuolumne and Tahoe area to your list as well. Especially if you would consider adding bouldering to your agenda, even if not there is a plethora of absolutely amazing roped climbing there

While I love climbing around Tahoe (it is my home area now) and NorCal granite generally, I find it to be generally reminiscent of Squamish's rock and climbing styles, at least in the broad strokes of both being grey west coast mountain granite (as compared to the brown weathered desert granite of City of Rocks and SoCal).  There's lots of variety within Tahoe, of course.  The featured cracks and faces of Donner remind me a lot of the rock and style of Murrin. The blocky metamorphic rock around Emeralds/Bowman reminds me of Chek. The sheer walls and pure crack style of Sugarloaf (or Yosemite Valley, for that matter) are somewhat like the Chief. Lovers Leap and Tuolumne offer something different from Squamish, with their dikes and knobs (respectively), but broad strokes they are still grey west coast granite.

So even though each area offers something unique, if Khoi wants something that is a big change from Squamish granite, I don't think that NorCal granite is the place to find that. If they hate Squamish granite, I find it unlikely that they would love NorCal granite. Same can be said of other BC granite such as Powell River (mentioned earlier in thread).

Limestone in Wyoming or Alberta, though, that is something very different.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Index is the only crag I can think of, where the classics do not tend to be the softest climbs of the grade…

You need to get out more if this is your experience. 

@JCM: fair point 

I would vote for Tensleep if you decide on a southern tour. You could also check out the other cliffs in the Big Horns like Crazy Woman and the stuff around Sheridan.  Trevor Bowman's guide is pretty good for the eastern Big Horns.  Lander is actually west of your route if you drive from Tensleep to the Laramie/Vedauwoo area and it would be a little out of your way.   Vedauwoo is an acquired taste, but has some really nice single pitch cracks and not all of them are off width.  I prefer Lander to Tensleep only because of the variety of angles and the better year round access.  Summer is definitely cooler in Tensleep and Vedauwoo is too.

*edited to correctly read that Lander is west not east

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

You need to get out more if this is your experience. 

@JCM: fair point 

IDK seemed to be the case in Wild Iris, Clear Creek, The Red, Rumney, Chek, Skaha, Canmore, Red Rocks, and St George. Maybe Smith and Index are the crags I can think of that this is not the case.  Some places maybe on par, but Ro Shampo is memed into oblivion as only being 10D (I havent climbed it) and it seems to be by far the most popular 12a in the known universe. 

Ten Sleep also seems to be memed for being soft but people who have climbed 20+ 12s there seem to think just the popular ones are mega soft. Who knows. My main point is you can pretty easily find one soft route that is super popular at every crag.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

IDK seemed to be the case in Wild Iris, Clear Creek, The Red, Rumney, Chek, Skaha, Canmore, Red Rocks, and St George. Maybe Smith and Index are the crags I can think of that this is not the case.  Some places maybe on par, but Ro Shampo is memed into oblivion as only being 10D (I havent climbed it) and it seems to be by far the most popular 12a in the known universe. 

Ten Sleep also seems to be memed for being soft but people who have climbed 20+ 12s there seem to think just the popular ones are mega soft. Who knows. 

Wild Iris - not the case

Clear Creek - not the case

RRG- I can see that, but no. Especially for those techy, vert climbers. 

RR- the entire place is fairly soft so I’ll let ya have that one 

Smith- everything feels kinda stiff so not the case

NRG- not the case either 

Rifle- lol

Shelf- mostly no 

Since you mentioned Ro, I see your Ro Shampo and raise you Kaleidoscope, Chainsaw, Bare metal teen, Cell Block Six, and even Phantasia which are all classics and all fairly stiff grades for the area.

Again, with Ten Sleep there is just so many 5.12‘s that it is easy to pick and choose your style. I challenge you to climb Keilbasa, EKV, Team Whiny Baby, or Crown Prince and tell me they don’t feel on par for the grade…or even challenging. With that said, there are a fair share of routes in Ten Sleep that have received downgrades with the extreme amounts of traffic it’s seen in the last 5-10 years (dances with cows, tangerine, fortress of solitude to make lost a few “classics”) 

My main point is you can pretty easily find one soft route that is super popular at every crag area.

That wasn’t your initial point but I agree with this statement.

I think this debate about whether Ten Sleep is soft is somewhat beside the point, even if it is entertaining. For a first time visitor who climbs at that level, a more important point is there there is a very nice selection of "entry level" 12a's that are going to be very approachable to someone just breaking into the grade. Whether the grades are actually soft, or if it is just a combination of friendly movement style and friendly bolting, is again beside the point. Also what can be missed in these grade-softness debates is just that these routes are really good.

So without using the word "soft", I will say that Ten Sleep is a great place to do your first 12a. Many people do their first 12a there - and there are a handful of popular routes that are this most often takes place on. Someone just breaking into that grade is likely to have a fun trip.  Or they could just do a bunch of 5.10 onsighting, and also have a fun trip.

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But to wade into the debate anyway: I think that Ten Sleep has some soft routes, and some stiff routes, like most places. But the average at Ten Sleep is probably softer than the average at most places, and there are a handful of outlier extra-soft routes. Or at least there were 10 years ago when I last climbed there - perhaps those grades have been adjusted since. Overall it presents more opportunity to find soft routes than most places, even if not every route is soft.

JCMwrote:

So without using the word "soft", I will say that Ten Sleep is a great place to do your first 12a, and many people do their first 12a there. 

Sooooooooo, it’s soft? 

Kevin Worrallwrote:

Tuolumne Meadows and surrounding high country

What this guy said, he might be onto something…

i'd generally agree with people who're recommending tuolumne and the sierra high country, BUT we're having a record snow pack and it'll take a long time to melt out, then it'll be soggy as hell for a while and the bugs will feast.  thinking the best time for these parts will be in early fall of this year...

old5tenwrote:

i'd generally agree with people who're recommending tuolumne and the sierra high country, BUT we're having a record snow pack and it'll take a long time to melt out, then it'll be soggy as hell for a while and the bugs will feast.  thinking the best time for these parts will be in early fall of this year...

Agree. Personally I wouldn't go near the Meadows until August this year.

Vedauwoo is a really good place, if you like to crack climb specifically. If you're more of an all-around granite climber, you're gonna be disappointed. That said, if you're into crack climbing, Vedauwoo is in the top ten, maybe top five crack climbing destinations in the lower 48. And not just for offwidths.

Wild Iris and Ten Sleep have pretty different scenes. Personally, I prefer Wild Iris to Ten Sleep, but if you have time, they're only like 4 hours apart. You could do both. I think I've spent close to 6 months of my life at Wild Iris, and I'm excited to go back.