Notorious 5.9+ sandbags

Marc801 Cwrote:

Or Dunn. 

I came up under Jim Dunn's wing in the late 70's-1980-ish in NH. I wish I could find my old cathedral ledge guidebook from then. there were a few 5.9+ Yowzaa. Henry Barber days.

Bloody Marry @ Poke-O is legit 

+1 for The Yawn, the only route I’ve bailed from. Granted it started snowing and I was facing the wrong way in the offwidth.

Another tough California 5.9+ is Blockbuster at Eagle Lake Cliff. Climb double cracks, plug a big cam in the offwidth, layback several feet then pull yourself left to the gnarly and brutal squeeze that goes some 25-30 feet.

Marc801 Cwrote:

As Frank mentioned, anyone see a trend here? Off-widths and chimneys are notoriously difficult to grade with any accuracy - it depends so much on the climber's experience in those forms of climbing. I had a friend who was solid at 11+ (I think he even did an FFA at that grade of a route that was previously something like 5.7 A2) and due to his admitted lack of experience on OW felt P1 of The Yawn was the hardest thing he'd ever done.

FWIW, I thought the sandbagged part of The Yawn was the 5.7 pitch, with the rack I had. Overall I felt it was just a stout 5.9. It does have the reputation though. 

As far as the trend you mention, North Chimney is on the same formation as Kor-Ingalls. Both have wide, but only one is widely considered a sandbag. So my question is... what's up with that?

@ Will: I've done almost every route at Eagle Lake Cliff, but not Blockbuster yet. Partly because of its reputation, and partly because I don't want to lug the big gear up there. 

bryans wrote:

Well now, you yourself called it 9plus on the ratings section (go look), and what does 9plus means besides sandbag? If it's a testpiece 9, why didn't you just call it a 9? :) Anyway, thanks for starting the thread!

I was young and naïve back then. I thought that 5.9+ is just a tad harder than 5.9, just like an 5.11b is just a tad harder than a 5.11a. And I certainly don't mean to belittle Walt Bailey - it is a challenging pitch.

Franck Veewrote:

It's been a few years, but I don't know if I'd say it is a sandbag. It goes through more or less all the gamut of jam sizes, but I don't recall shutdown moves, or it being sustained to the point of being and endurance thing. I think I would call it a testpiece 5.9, more than a sandbag.

I climbed it nearly 25 years ago when that was my absolute max. I had no trouble. It was super fun but I never thought it was terribly hard.

Frosted mug at the beer walls in the adirondacks. I managed to pull myself up it a few times as a beginner climber, but even after sending 5.13, I still think I would struggle a bit. My girlfriend hated that one. Come to think, that one might not even get a + in the book. Or on mp. But that shit is tough. Harder than partition 5.9+ at upper washbowl. I have heard of some adirondack 9+ line being retrograded to 5.11c. We have a particular style in this area. And I have struggled less on 5.11s in the park. 

False prophet on cap rock in Joshua tree. Jesus all mighty. 

Cronwrote:

Bloody Marry @ Poke-O is legit 

That route was the hardest climb in the adirondacks for 15 years. I haven’t had the pleasure of climbing it myself but I hear it is on par with almost every other traditional full length route on the cliff. 

mountainhickwrote:

I came up under Jim Dunn's wing in the late 70's-1980-ish in NH. I wish I could find my old cathedral ledge guidebook from then. there were a few 5.9+ Yowzaa. Henry Barber days.

Yep. There was one of those Dunn 5.9+ routes that my partner and I fell off of for many attempts. I forget the name but in the modern guidebook it's rated 11b.

it's funny that a lot of these are wide cracks. for me it is always the fucked up friction stuff that feels hard.  ugghhh.

I don't know about notorious because the crux is only one move, but Goliath (5.9+++) in Sedona has a stupidly sandbagged summit block. I swear that route gets another + added to its grade every couple years. I've had partners say it's anywhere from 5.10c-11b after they tried it. Normally I like to call tough routes old-school grading but for that one move I'll actually tell partners that it's a bit sandbagged.

The Cleft, 5.9, Cookie Cliff

The original route on the sore thumb in Custer SP. Great climb, awesome feature, quite hard for 5.9

I thought frosted mug was easy for 5.9, if you are good at stemming.

My vote goes to Fantasia at Vedauwo. I’ve done all the mentioned Dacks routes, kor ingals, and a bunch of Yosemite 5.9s.

Molly Zwrote:

I thought frosted mug was easy for 5.9, if you are good at stemming.

My vote goes to Fantasia at Vedauwo. I’ve done all the mentioned Dacks routes, kor ingals, and a bunch of Yosemite 5.9s.

Of the classic northeast dihedrals Ive done, frosted mug I thought was the toughest. Compared to p4 of the fastest gun 10a, partition 9+, golden dream 9, and flying hawaiian 11b, I found frosted mug to be the most strenuous. Placing gear was hard, the climbing was hard, it was long, an amazing line, very fun, but certainly not easy!!! That said I never fell on any of these dihedrals, but of these, I had the hardest time on frosted mug, though flying hawaiian was considerably more scary. Maybe I should return to see if my opinion has changed, it has been 18 months since I last climbed it. 

Jaws at the New is mostly 5.9, but the middle section is a bit thinner so most have to layback it on slick feet. I hear people calling it 5.10 often enough.

Fear of Flying at phantom spires is pretty damn sandbagged for a .9+

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105799815/rat-crack

Has shutdown nearly every gym climber I've ever introduced... for many years. haha

9+ is sandbagged for people who don't climb solid 5.10.  like myself!

but that said:

Phobos - yes, that 3d chimney roof nonsense on p1 is completely baffling and the jams are awkward, but so rewarding for the 2nd pitch glory hand crack

Crescent Arch - definitely heads ups. honestly the 5.8 pitch with the shitty pro in the undercling is what got me!

Not all Yosemite 5.9's are sandbagged. 

North Chimney is not sandbagged. barely one move of 5.9.