I’ve been trying to get through to these guys for years, the Gri sucks, and the point MP continuously misses is that the Gri is too difficult for most people to use correctly 100% of the time.
I noticed the problem working in gyms and battling continuously with bad Gri belays and dropped climbers, that was when “squeeze and feed” was standard and it was so bad Petzl made a whole advertising campaign with their “fix” of curling your finger under the flange and only your thumb on the cam. It didn’t help much as the fix was awkward at best for most people and they would continuously revert to the easy (old) way of belaying.
My refrain is the “Gri Gri is twice the weight, twice the price and half the function of most other belay devices” but that doesn’t even address the safety issue.
I switched to the Smart Alpine 10 years ago and it continuously blows the mind of noobs carrying a Gri AND an ATC on their harness regularly. I just roll my eyes nowadays, nice to see someone else picking up the torch!
Check out a pair of lockers plus a smart vs a gri, the gri is actually lighter - not that it matters, because it’s handfuls of ounces. I only climb with a grigri not an ATC as well when I’m out having fun, so many ways to rap and lower and get the job done.
Hanging a gri off an anchor to belay from above is unequivocally smoother and easier than a smart, or any ABD plaquette I’ve tried. Not only that but in no way does a smart feed out as smoothly. Just like I can’t hand someone a gri without instruction a noob operating a smart will short rope the fuck out of you.
look, use whatever device you want, it really doesn’t matter. If you like some niche gear, cool I think that’s part of the fun of climbing - but don’t be blinded by your bias. We each weigh pros and cons and come up with our preferred method. Just gotta make sure that list is objective.
edit
smart alpine 125g + attaché 80g(you’ll need a round bar stick to save your shoulders) =205g
Grigri 178g
Looks like I’m going to send because I shaved off that pesky ounce (doesn’t matter that I’m 25lbs overweight tho tbh)
edit for Tradiban (post limit lol)
Yes, I use one locker to hang my gri, just like you use one locker to hang yours. However you STILL need a second locker to run the rope through silly.
A gri is totally safe to use directly off the anchor (we got break hands).
Check out a pair of lockers plus a smart vs a gri, the gri is actually lighter - not that it matters, because it’s handfuls of ounces. I only climb with a grigri not an ATC as well when I’m out having fun, so many ways to rap and lower and get the job done.
Hanging a gri off an anchor to belay from above is unequivocally smoother and easier than a smart, or any ABD plaquette I’ve tried. Not only that but in no way does a smart feed out as smoothly. Just like I can’t hand someone a gri without instruction a noob operating a smart will short rope the fuck out of you.
look, use whatever device you want, it really doesn’t matter. If you like some niche gear, cool I think that’s part of the fun of climbing - but don’t be blinded by your bias. We each weigh pros and cons and come up with our preferred method. Just gotta make sure that list is objective.
edit
smart alpine 125g + attaché 80g(you’ll need a round bar stick to save your shoulders) =205g
Grigri 178g
Looks like I’m going to send because I shaved off that pesky ounce (doesn’t matter that I’m 25lbs overweight tho tbh)
You don’t use a carabiner with your Gri?
Once you learn the Smart or any other device besides the Gri it’s intuitive and easy, the problem (again) is that the Gri is so awkward to use correctly most people don’t. I would rather be short roped than dropped.
Edit: Don’t use the Gri in the top down (upside down) belay the cam can be pinched and unlock.
I use both the Beal Birdie and the Gri-Gri. Once had the Lifeguard. I didn't love the Lifeguard because it's handle was too tiny for my liking. The Birdie is a little more substantial. They each have their own uses - gri-gri as has been said is better at the top of a pitch or cliff. I like the Birdie better for letting our slack (similar to lifeguard) - and for teaching beginners in a structured indoor setting how to use an ABD. The lowering requires you to rely more on your brake hand and to fully pull the lever, which I find an important skill to teach early-on. I also like the Birdie a little better for rope-soloing. It comes down to spring tension and I think it's more preference.
That said, nothing feels as good to handle ergonomically as a Gri
No problems with the Grigri thumb press, but I do have a problem with having to feed slack upwards. This move is gnar on the shoulder after a while. I much prefer the straight sideways feeding of the Vergo, MUCH easier on the arm and shoulder. It can also be attached to a taut rope, which is great for rope soloing to get off your main device when needing to lower.
David K
·
Sep 5, 2022
·
The Road, Sometimes Chattan…
· Joined Jan 2017
· Points: 434
No problems with the Grigri thumb press, but I do have a problem with having to feed slack upwards. This move is gnar on the shoulder after a while. I much prefer the straight sideways feeding of the Vergo, MUCH easier on the arm and shoulder. It can also be attached to a taut rope, which is great for rope soloing to get off your main device when needing to lower.
Contrary to the OP, I personally would like to nominate Petzl for a Nobel Peace Prize for saving thousands of climber's lives with the invention of the GriGri!
I’ve been trying to get through to these guys for years, the Gri sucks, and the point MP continuously misses is that the Gri is too difficult for most people to use correctly 100% of the time.
I noticed the problem working in gyms and battling continuously with bad Gri belays and dropped climbers, that was when “squeeze and feed” was standard and it was so bad Petzl made a whole advertising campaign with their “fix” of curling your finger under the flange and only your thumb on the cam. It didn’t help much as the fix was awkward at best for most people and they would continuously revert to the easy (old) way of belaying.
My refrain is the “Gri Gri is twice the weight, twice the price and half the function of most other belay devices” but that doesn’t even address the safety issue.
I switched to the Smart Alpine 10 years ago and it continuously blows the mind of noobs carrying a Gri AND an ATC on their harness regularly. I just roll my eyes nowadays, nice to see someone else picking up the torch!
The issue is simply that other belay devices are definitly not used correctly 100% either. No device is idiot proof and i have seen shit shows all around me, regardless of device.
If people want to believe the hype and let someone belay them with a Gri that’s their choice but I’ve seen too many dropped climbers with dumbfounded belayors to trust the thing.
So your issue is bad belayers. So don't climb with bad belayers. I don't. It's not that difficult.
How do you know you don’t climb with bad belayors?
1. I'm part of a climbing club and instructor. If you did not pass your belay check, your not climbing. As volenteers, no incentive to let any pass unless they are capable.
2. Climb with mutliple people and look how they belay others.
3. Look down and see what the belayer is doing.
4. For multipitches tie in the middle, let others check if out of sight or get belayed from top and bottom, check how they belay the leader or follower when you are next to them.
If people want to believe the hype and let someone belay them with a Gri that’s their choice but I’ve seen too many dropped climbers with dumbfounded belayors to trust the thing.
Why would anyone listen to the ultimate troll on a serious subject? Keep your opinion to yourself.
1. I'm part of a climbing club and instructor. If you did not pass your belay check, your not climbing. As volenteers, no incentive to let any pass unless they are capable.
One belay check will not guarantee a correctly when they are not under supervision. Learned that from many years at the gym and outside giving “belay checks”.
2. Climb with mutliple people and look how they belay others.
Pretty good start, but not practical with people you just met that day for a few pitches.
3. Look down and see what the belayer is doing.
Not a good angle to see how they are really doing.
4. For multipitches tie in the middle, let others check if out of sight or get belayed from top and bottom, check how they belay the leader or follower when you are next to them.
Pretty much what I do except for the “tie in the middle” shenanigans.
Point is that alot if the time it’s not practical to check your partners belay before climbing and a quick spot check doesn’t really tell the whole story. Furthermore, people revert to bad belays and drop people when they panic and it would be hard to induce that action artificially so you may “check” it.
Again, the Gri is a difficult device to use well, and people regularly get tripped up in it. I know from extensive experience in the gym and in the field. Sure, it doesn’t happen “all the time” but we all know….”It only takes once to die!”
This is the shit post I needed after a long weekend back to work. For reals I can't imagine using the Gri for 2 years and still struggle on how to not cam it. Use what you like but saying it's a shitty device is purely objective and opinion.
This is the shit post I needed after a long weekend back to work. For reals I can't imagine using the Gri for 2 years and still struggle on how to not cam it. Use what you like but saying it's a shitty device is purely objective and opinion.
You need sleep, me thinks.
David K
·
Sep 6, 2022
·
The Road, Sometimes Chattan…
· Joined Jan 2017
· Points: 434
You Nancy’s would have had a $hit fit in the hip belay days.
One of my climbing partners is an older gentleman who talks about climbing at Stoney Point when he was a kid. He was taught to climb by a bunch of older climbers using hip belays. The "belay test" in in this group was they'd go to this tree in a park where a pulley was set up with a big steel barrel filled with concrete in a big old tree. They'd winch up the weight, feed out an amount of slack and then you put the weight "on belay", and they drop the weight. If you caught it, you pass.
My friend COULDN'T WAIT to be included, but being like 13, he didn't weigh close to as much as the barrel, so each time he attempted to pass the test he was predictably and violently launched. That didn't stop him from trying the test every time his partners would possibly allow him too. According to him, his older partners probably found his repeated attempts funny (how could they not?) but they always managed to keep a straight face about it and take it all very seriously. He didn't catch the weight until he was 16 so this literally went on for years--probably once a month they'd go out to the park and test a few folks and he'd get launched and go home discouraged.
He estimates the weight was about 80kg and the rope was old and stiff. I'm pretty sure a lot of people these days couldn't catch that with an ATC.
If people want to believe the hype and let someone belay them with a Gri that’s their choice but I’ve seen too many dropped climbers with dumbfounded belayors to trust the thing.
Please back that up with statistically valid quantification / references to appropriate studies, otherwise state that it is merely your biased opinion.
One of my climbing partners is an older gentleman who talks about climbing at Stoney Point when he was a kid. He was taught to climb by a bunch of older climbers using hip belays. The "belay test" in in this group was they'd go to this tree in a park where a pulley was set up with a big steel barrel filled with concrete in a big old tree. They'd winch up the weight, feed out an amount of slack and then you put the weight "on belay", and they drop the weight. If you caught it, you pass.
My friend COULDN'T WAIT to be included, but being like 13, he didn't weigh close to as much as the barrel, so each time he attempted to pass the test he was predictably and violently launched. That didn't stop him from trying the test every time his partners would possibly allow him too. According to him, his older partners probably found his repeated attempts funny (how could they not?) but they always managed to keep a straight face about it and take it all very seriously. He didn't catch the weight until he was 16 so this literally went on for years--probably once a month they'd go out to the park and test a few folks and he'd get launched and go home discouraged.
He estimates the weight was about 80kg and the rope was old and stiff. I'm pretty sure a lot of people these days couldn't catch that with an ATC.
Hmmmm.... at the time this was being taught and tested like this, the belayer was also taught to always attach to a ground anchor. Something doesn't pass the sniff test here.
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