Grigri is the shittiest assisted breaking belay device on the market

As has probably been said already, its the spring.

On the GriGri the spring is weaker, so it locks up sooner.

On the Lifeguard the spring is stronger, so it resists locking up as soon. (On the Safeguard there is no spring, so it locks up immediately with the slightest tug on the live rope.)

For positioning use, for example a guide walking around near an edge or on a very very low angle slab, the GriGri locking up sooner is nicer. Leads to less unexpected dropping. Either way you obviously still need a backup knot a short distance below you.

For top belay use, like with multipitch, a sooner lock up is also nicer. These are not hands free devices and they don't lock up as fast, securely, and are not as friendly on the elbows as say a GiGi or Ovo... but they are still much nicer on the elbows than ATC-Guide/Reverso/Pivot/etc... With GriGri you need less rope weight going down to the climber to keep the cam engaged due to its weaker spring. With the Lifeguard you need more rope weight going down to the climber to keep the cam engaged... if the rope back-feeds down to the climber, this means more rope weight you need to pull up again, that is not very efficient or safe.

Tradeoffs.

My PSA would be everyone should still use the PBUS method when belaying with a grigri (Pull, Brake, Under, Slide)

IF I need to do the quick-feed cam-deactivating method for lead belaying I make sure to still hold the brake strand of the rope while I use just my thumb to press open the lever, say right before a clip or if the climber yanked a surprise huge armful of rope and locked it up. Generally I just feed out slack normally without deactivating the cam.

Do what you like but for me I feel much safer knowing my belayer has the mechanical backup of a grigri, especially if they are less experienced or when I'm climbing way up out of sight.

Daniel H Bryant wrote:

I took a lead fall on a trad route that neither I nor my belayer would have anticipated a fall on, and the gri gri did well in this situation. My belayer was much smaller and lighter, so when I fell she got picked up and launched into the wall. When she  slammed into the wall her brake hand came off, but since the gri gri cammed up correctly we were ok. I typically advocate the use of standard ATC belay devices, but in certain scenarios (big climber /small belayer) a gri gri is good to have in your inventory. 

When there is a discrepancy in weight it is good to have your belayer anchored. Prevents many issues when a fall occurs.

Jake Foster wrote:

This is just a PSA, after reading all that controversy about Ondra's shitty belay and how people defending it. I personally despite Grigri and more importantly, I am very very wary when encountering new partners using Grigri, because I never know if they are going to abuse it at that very opportune time I take a big fall, a la mode Ashima Shiraishi accident by her father.

Here are the facts:

Grigri uses active camming. But it has one fatal problem: users need to finagle around the device to make it work.

Question: why do users need to use the official "thumb method" or, more egregiously, "clamping your whole hand around the device method" while using grigri?

Answer: Because Grigri is pain-in-the-butt to use. It locks up under certain situation, such as feeding rope very quickly. In order to work around this, people need to "disable" or "reduce the effect" of camming mechanism in order to make it work. So basically you design a device, but due to it poorly designed geometry, the breaking system has to be sidestepped in order to make it work. That is exactly the very definition of a poorly designed device.

What if I tell you there are devices that you operate 100% just a like an ATC, will all the benefit of activing camming, but you never need to finagle around the device to make it work(i.e. laying your hand one the device while belay such as clamping down the cam/thumb method)? Wouldn't that be a much better/safer device?

People cling to Grigri because it is the first on the market and it is most common. People are used to it and accept its defect as a matter-of fact. Because people are so used it, they seldom have motivation to try other devices. 

I used Grigri 2 for two years - hated it. I have tried pretty much all other assisted-braking devices: Click-up, Smart, Mega-jul, Giga-jul, Cinch, Vergo, Revo, Pilot, Matik, Birdie, and Lifeguard, my current personal favorite. 

Petzl got complacent - they never bother to improve the camming geometry. Once the patent had expired, other companies have jumped in and the design has improved to the point that Grigri's fatal problem has been fixed, not by Petzl itself, but by Mad Rock Lifeguard.

So stop buying that freaking shitty device known as Grigri. There are better assisted-braking belay device out there on the market.

End of PSA

I just use my Grigri as u'm using a ATC/reverso/whatever tube thing. Just get a decent rope, move the breaking hand up when pulling slack and if the climber want to clip high, just step forward. I rarely need to use the thumb methode. As mentioned by Petzl; The thumb methode is mentioned for just when climber needs a lot of rope. Tube style belaying for normal use. The issue is people not reading and/or following the manual. 

When i teach people, people that just learn how to use a Grigri as a ATC seems to pick it fast. Users that use the thumb methode first have trouble using it as a ATC.

Racechinees . wrote:

I just use my Grigri as u'm using a ATC/reverso/whatever tube thing. Just get a decent rope, move the breaking hand up when pulling slack and if the climber want to clip high, just step forward. I rarely need to use the thumb methode. As mentioned by Petzl; The thumb methode is mentioned for just when climber needs a lot of rope. Tube style belaying for normal use. The issue is people not reading and/or following the manual. 

When i teach people, people that just learn how to use a Grigri as a ATC seems to pick it fast. Users that use the thumb methode first have trouble using it as a ATC.

This. Completely this. 

I also believe they should make two sizes available, lots of folks have fat fuzzy ropes that only the original grigri can handle well.

It depends.

1.5/10. You get +0.5 because you wrote a lot of words.

Jake Foster wrote:

This is just a PSA. I am not very good at using a grigri.

End of PSA

I think that’s what you meant to say. 

M M wrote:

This. Completely this. 

I also believe they should make two sizes available, lots of folks have fat fuzzy ropes that only the original grigri can handle well.

This would almost certainly lead to more accidents (albeit through misuse).  I think Petzl is wise not to. It would also be devastating to their rope division.  /s 

I've taught hundreds of people to be competent lead belaying with a gri gri in a few minutes. Don't blame the tool if someone is not using it properly. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Or join the 21st century and get a new rope? I use a 9.5 or under for hundreds maybe thousands of laps on TR in Joshua Tree, the ultimate rope eating rock, and my ropes hold up just fine when properly extended.

Thats strange, guides I know go through multiple ropes every summer, you must really be top notch at setting up TRs.

I'm scratching my head on how a fuzzy rope not feeding well through a grigri2 turned into a discussion about setting up proper TRs but it is Mtn Proj!

Racechinees . wrote:

and if the climber want to clip high, just step forward.

Doesn't standing far enough back for this depend on the weight ratio ?

I'm pretty sure I can feed out slack faster with my grigri than my ATC (and I'm primarily an ATC user).

M M wrote:

I'm scratching my head on how a fuzzy rope not feeding well through a grigri2 turned into a discussion about setting up proper TRs but it is Mtn Proj!

Lol. You’re the person who made the snarky comment about Hobo’s TR setup to begin with. You in a bad mood or something?

Allen Sanderson wrote:

When there is a discrepancy in weight it is good to have your belayer anchored. Prevents many issues when a fall occurs.

But then you won't get a soft catch, which some here would have you believe is the most important thing in belaying!

The Lifeguard will absolutely lock up on you if you pull rope fast enough. However, I agree that it's easier to pay slack out quickly with a Lifeguard. I also agree that, even though I know how to do it, the whole thumb thing with a Grigri is a pain in the ass compared to what you have to do with other devices.

I've owned and used the Grigri, Lifeguard, Birdie, Vergo, Gigajul, Pilot, and Revo. Until the Revo came out, I found the Vergo to be the smoothest, but after the recall fiasco, I never went back. Now the Revo is by far the smoothest, even smoother than an ATC, but the speed-sensitive lockup makes it better for routes where falls and hanging are less likely. It also is easy to lock up when lowering. Mostly, I use mine for LRS and for belaying on easy single-pitch routes.

For recreational climbing, I prefer using my Lifeguard. When guiding, though, I almost always use a Grigri. Nothing else I've used locks up as fast, and that's really important for belaying clients, especially from the top, and for going over edges on a tether. I've had other devices slip a little before I was in fully vertical terrain, and that was unnerving.

The cool thing about random ass belay devices like the gigajul lifeboat clickemfast überbelay and the ChurninUrn of Burnin Funk ABD is being the only one who uses them and confusing your climbing partners when you hand it to em 

Jake Foster wrote:

This is just a PSA, after reading all that controversy about Ondra's shitty belay and how people defending it. I personally despite Grigri and more importantly, I am very very wary when encountering new partners using Grigri, because I never know if they are going to abuse it at that very opportune time I take a big fall, a la mode Ashima Shiraishi accident by her father.

Here are the facts:

Grigri uses active camming. But it has one fatal problem: users need to finagle around the device to make it work.

Question: why do users need to use the official "thumb method" or, more egregiously, "clamping your whole hand around the device method" while using grigri?

Answer: Because Grigri is pain-in-the-butt to use. It locks up under certain situation, such as feeding rope very quickly. In order to work around this, people need to "disable" or "reduce the effect" of camming mechanism in order to make it work. So basically you design a device, but due to it poorly designed geometry, the breaking system has to be sidestepped in order to make it work. That is exactly the very definition of a poorly designed device.

What if I tell you there are devices that you operate 100% just a like an ATC, will all the benefit of activing camming, but you never need to finagle around the device to make it work(i.e. laying your hand one the device while belay such as clamping down the cam/thumb method)? Wouldn't that be a much better/safer device?

People cling to Grigri because it is the first on the market and it is most common. People are used to it and accept its defect as a matter-of fact. Because people are so used it, they seldom have motivation to try other devices. 

I used Grigri 2 for two years - hated it. I have tried pretty much all other assisted-braking devices: Click-up, Smart, Mega-jul, Giga-jul, Cinch, Vergo, Revo, Pilot, Matik, Birdie, and Lifeguard, my current personal favorite. 

Petzl got complacent - they never bother to improve the camming geometry. Once the patent had expired, other companies have jumped in and the design has improved to the point that Grigri's fatal problem has been fixed, not by Petzl itself, but by Mad Rock Lifeguard.

So stop buying that freaking shitty device known as Grigri. There are better assisted-braking belay device out there on the market.

End of PSA

I’ve been trying to get through to these guys for years, the Gri sucks, and the point MP continuously misses is that the Gri is too difficult for most people to use correctly 100% of the time.

I noticed the problem working in gyms and battling continuously with bad Gri belays and dropped climbers, that was when “squeeze and feed” was standard and it was so bad Petzl made a whole advertising campaign with their “fix” of curling your finger under the flange and only your thumb on the cam. It didn’t help much as the fix was awkward at best for most people and they would continuously revert to the easy (old) way of belaying.

My refrain is the “Gri Gri is twice the weight, twice the price and half the function of most other belay devices” but that doesn’t even address the safety issue.

I switched to the Smart Alpine 10 years ago and it continuously blows the mind of noobs carrying a Gri AND an ATC on their harness regularly. I just roll my eyes nowadays, nice to see someone else picking up the torch!

I 100% agree that the Mad Rock Lifeguard is better for belaying single-pitch sport. I've started threads saying as much, and I stand by what I said. That said, when taking my SPI, I ran into situations other than sport where it didn't perform as well, particularly around top belaying and rappelling. It's workable for those situations, but the GriGri does better. The narrower geometry of the LifeGuard lets it twist around when lowering/belaying from the top, and if your rope gets any twists in it, it can twist the rope around, causing it to catch and need to be untwisted. Lowering from the top this is annoying--belaying up from the top this could be dangerous because a client could get ahead of you being able to take in slack (of course, you can just yell down for them to climb slower). Rappelling, the twisting thing means that the lever can get caught on the rope--not enough to keep the device open, but enough to be difficult to unjam, and a bit disconcerting.

The ClickUp is great for belaying TR, top belaying, and rappelling, but is problematic for lead belaying, as it's too slow to unlock it if it "clicks up". This can be avoided most of the time, but it still happens just enough that I can't justify using the device to lead belay. Sometimes short roping can be dangerous.

I've tried a few other (auto-locking) devices and besides the Trango Vergo (EDIT: and the Revo, forgot that), all the other ones are basically crappier versions of either the LifeGuard or the ClickUp (for example, I'd say the Beal Birdie is a worse LifeGuard, the BD Pilot is a worse ClickUp).

Ultimately, what it comes down to for me is, the GriGri isn't the best at anything, but it's no worse than mediocre at anything I've come across. No matter what you're trying to do you can make it work.