Communicating with out-of-sight partner

If I had a dime for every time I saw noobs fumbling with radios....

Interference, dead batteries, dropped radio, that annoying "BEEP" after every 10 second update....learn to communicate without radios, its not hard.

David Kwrote:

Please do share what skillset your partners have which allows them to communicate through solid rock!

What's the rope tug system for "I'm being swarmed by bees, and have alpined butterflied into the center of the rope, put me on belay fucking now!"?

Lol ok dude

I have radios, but seldom bring them.  When I do (newer partner, spring runoff in Eldorado, etc.), I only turn them on when the leader signals that he thinks he will be going out of earshot.

Also, I have used the word "tension" since the 1980s.  I never liked that the word "take" has a long "a" sound like "off belay".  In many situations in which I would say take, I found that thought potentially disturbing.

David Kwrote:

Another thing is that at crowded crags, a neighbor's communications can get confused with your own with disastrous results. I actually am fairly insistent that my partners use names with calls in such situations, and given how common my first name is, I've even had to use Top-Gun-style call signs due to neighbors with the same name.

I think this should be standard practice with or without radios for every communication. Without radios, it lets me know "oh hey, my partner is trying to talk to me. Listen to what comes next" vs maybe not listening super closely and missing the first part of the message. To me, the name is 1. I'm talking and 2. I'm talking to YOU followed by what needs to be said.

Even with the walkie talkies, I think it should still follow that pattern. With the limited number of channels, it's possible to have another party on the same freq. God forbid someone other than your partner says "off belay" at an inopportune time. It takes 1 second. Say the name of the person you're communicating with at the start of your message.

Chris Johnsonwrote: God forbid someone other than your partner says "off belay" at an inopportune time. It takes 1 second. Say the name of the person you're communicating with at the start of your message.

Might as well adopt standard radio protocol at that point, which also isn't that hard. It's simply [to][from][message]. Ex. "Iceman, Maverick, off belay."

Tradibanwrote:

If I had a dime for every time I saw noobs fumbling with radios....

Interference, dead batteries, dropped radio, that annoying "BEEP" after every 10 second update....learn to communicate without radios, its not hard.

Ensure your radios are charged, that you turn the "beep" function off and give them a tether, it's not hard.

Derek DeBruinwrote:

Might as well adopt standard radio protocol at that point, which also isn't that hard. It's simply [to][from][message]. Ex. "Iceman, Maverick, off belay."

"Camdaddy, ropedog, take me off im going solo"

Samuel Ammermannwrote:

"Camdaddy, ropedog, take me off im going solo"

Hahahaha. Awesome.

The more you know, the less you carry. 

Simon Thompsonwrote:

The more you know, the less you carry. 

Yep!

Radios are ideal, but before leaving the ground I always tell my partner that when I am done pulling rope, you will be on belay in less than a minute. So once the rope is tight, you can wait 60 seconds and start climbing even if you can't hear me.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Oh how did any multi pitches get climbed before radios?! The horror!

Yer so salty.

How did any multi pitch get climbed before:

EB's

Sticky rubber

Cams

Curved nuts

Leg loops

Grigris

60m ropes, hell 70m ropes

Sun hoodies

The list goes on.  There is nothing wrong with adopting things to make life easier and more comfortable while climbing.  Talkies don't take the place of good communication but they sure do help.

acrophobewrote:

When I do (newer partner, spring runoff in Eldorado, etc.), I only turn them on when the leader signals that he thinks he will be going out of earshot.

Interesting, I'm curious why you don't want use the tool you've brought? May as well right?

safety third

artificial sounds are so cringe when out in nature at a prestine climbing area the beep boop of a walkie talkie is very annoying to hear 

however, if someone is climbing with their bf or gf lover or a family member they say walkie talkies can save a relationship from breaking down into arguments and frustration and creates a stronger partnership going forward, but walkie talkies ruin the sound scape for other climbers in the area

Where in the world are people climbing where there are other people around to annoy with the artificial sound of radios?  

Kevin Mokracekwrote:

Where in the world are people climbing where there are other people around to annoy with the artificial sound of radios?  

Red rocks, the gunks…. I’m sure there are many others 

For those speaking about getting others on their radio channel, there are a whole lot of channels and you can make a choice at the start of the climb. My observation as a new but observant user is that a lot of people leave their radios set as they came out of the box, so for example everyone with a Rockie Talkie who hasn't intervened is going to be on the same channel. On top of that, there are the utterly-misnamed privacy codes, which will keep you from hearing others on your channel unless they have coincidentally activated the same privacy code (again, there a many of these).  With my own choice of channel and privacy code, I've never had any crosstalk with other radios, even in a crowded crag with a fair number of radio users around (judging from what I see).  There's still a chance you'll hear another party, but it is pretty small and you can very likely fix it at the next stance by changing settings.

I don't think it is good idea to get into blabber mode, as I have heard some nearby parties do.  Your belayer doesn't need to know the fine details of your physical and mental state, or what struggles you are having getting the perfect cam placement.  For the most part, I stick to the same type of communication I'd be using without the radios.  It is easier to let the second know that a certain piece of pro is fixed and does not have to be removed, for example, as well as warning them about a partially-hidden wasps nest, but mostly it's on and off belay and climb.

One of the frustrating and sometimes anxiety-producing things in climbing is when there is a huge pause in activity by a partner.  Much of the time, there's a good reason for it, but this is of no consolation to the other partner whose impatience is building and who may be starting to wonder if they have to consider some kind of rescue. Having radio communication alleviates this by keeping the partner in the loop.

The extra weight, charging issues, beeps (which can be turned off) and dropping potential are all real.  As with all the gadgets and trinkets the contemporary climber uses that are not strictly necessary, the question is whether the benefits outweigh the costs.

Alright this thread has run its course. If you like radios, use them. If you don’t like radios, don’t use them. The most annoying thing is the absolutes getting thrown around. Do your thing. 

rgoldwrote:

For the most part, I try to stick to the same type of communication I'd be using without the radios.  It is easier to let the second know that a certain piece of pro is fixed and does not have to be removed, for example, as well as warning them about a partially-hidden wasps nest, but mostly it's on and off belay and climb.

What is a good way(s) to let your second know about fixed pro when you’re out of earshot without walkies?

Of course it would take being on the same page about the signal, but maybe a piece of tape? Hang a random nut from it? Email?

Andy Eiterwrote:

What is a good way(s) to let your second know about fixed pro when you’re out of earshot without walkies?

Of course it would take being on the same page about the signal, but maybe a piece of tape? Hang a random nut from it? Email?

Maybe one idea is to sling the fixed piece differently than how you would typically extend your own pro? For example, if you typically use a sling and carabiner to clip into a cam for extension and typically use an alpine draw to clip a nut you place yourself, then maybe you could basket hitch a fixed piece of pro with a sling and a carabiner (assuming you don't need to extend to far) or girth hitch the fixed piece with a sling (assuming you're not worried about the reduced breaking point)? Of course, this would require you and your follower have clearly communicated this system and agreed on it before the leader starts climbing.