New and Experienced climbers over 50 #21

dragonswrote:

Hi all, long time no see, hope all is well, life got busy. Hope this is not OT, thought you might enjoy it. Rich led us up "Yum Yum Yab Yum" (5.4) yesterday. It was our first time on it. Wonderful climb, extremely vertical! Here's a pic of Rich under the roof before the upper traverse:

Have always wanted to do this one.  Thanks for the inspiration.  Any beta for finding the start?

First Trip to the south west in 86. We had a nice Gunks rack. Double sets of micro stoppers and extra pink tricams... Zion was TERRIFYING.. belaying this pitch

we only had two pieces that fit this crack.... and one of them my #11 hex was the other half of the belay. Charly took a hang on my #3 friend that I had borrowed from a friend and sent down a loop for the hex. I was clipped to a rusty 1/4" buttonhead so I sent the hex up and wedged my knee in the crack to supplement the button head with the Leeper hanger. This was P3 Charlie was leapfrogging our only two 3" pieces untill they no longer worked 

I was certain we were both Gonners. This was three pitches up and getting there was no picnic for us easterners... getting down once we finally pulled the plug was both expensive and terrifying. First rap from the tipped out friend, 2nd rap from the single buttonhead in sandstone, third rap from drilled angles rigged with a death triangle that were so loose you could pull them right out of the holes and set them back in with your fingers> I pulled them out and set them back in trying to wrap my brain around the situation. Only reason we lived was rappelling with our bellies on the wall and the camming action of loading straight down and  NOT out somehow kept them in the mud.

Cross-pollination DRIFT:  Lori:  don’t listen to those dimwits on Nextdoor… true, electric stoves suck.  Fake true, propane burns hotter than natural gas, but only by like 45 degrees F.  True, propane packs better than 2x the energy per cubic foot.  But, the delivery pressure and orifice diameters cancel out the extra energy at the cooktop.  They can’t get a simmer because they have a crap stove, wrong delivery pressure, bad pans or operator error.

Russ Wallingwrote:

Cross-pollination DRIFT:  Lori:  don’t listen to those dimwits on Nextdoor… true, electric stoves suck.  Fake true, propane burns hotter than natural gas, but only by like 45 degrees F.  True, propane packs better than 2x the energy per cubic foot.  But, the delivery pressure and orifice diameters cancel out the extra energy at the cooktop.  They can’t get a simmer because they have a crap stove, wrong delivery pressure, bad pans or operator error.

I believe this is code to do with something about climbing. Are you saying you think I CAN climb a 5.11 someday?  

But seriously, I have a $900 propane bill to pay for three months of gas used only to heat our water and maybe I turned the heater on a time or two when it was cold. So I was on the verge of saying fuck it, let’s go all electric even though I really hate the stove. Now you’ve ruined it! The electric bill isn’t all that cheap either, and I haven’t been able to find an actual cost comparison… And if I try to include consideration for environmental issues, and what’s this about propane leaking in the house and making me sick, oh god, totally overwhelming.

What to do, what to do?  (Someone seriously suggested putting up a windmill… which would be fodder for eye-rolling for a long time.)  

Lori Milaswrote:

I believe this is code to do with something about climbing. Are you saying you think I CAN climb a 5.11 someday?  

But seriously, I have a $900 propane bill to pay for three months of gas used only to heat our water and maybe I turned the heater on a time or two when it was cold. So I was on the verge of saying fuck it, let’s go all electric even though I really hate the stove. Now you’ve ruined it! The electric bill isn’t all that cheap either, and I haven’t been able to find an actual cost comparison… And if I try to include consideration for environmental issues, and what’s this about propane leaking in the house and making me sick, oh god, totally overwhelming.

What to do, what to do?  (Someone seriously suggested putting up a windmill… which would be fodder for eye-rolling for a long time.)  

How much are you paying per gallon?  Our latest fill at the end of May was 375.4 gallons at $3.05/gal. so that's $1,145 for 5 months in a cold climate with furnace running everyday. Previous fill was January 7 @ $2.37/gal.  We have propane for heat, hot water and cooking. We do have a very well insulated house.  And we've shopped around for suppliers and found a small, local company with better prices (and service) than the big national brands.

If you're considering electric for cooking, look at induction stoves.  While they are expensive and require special pans, they are VERY efficient and therefore popular in Spain where electric is very expensive.

I had one house with baseboard electric heat, very inefficient.  Another with electric forced air heat/air conditioning that was OK.

I actually really like my electric range in the cabin and its dirt cheap compared to the propane in the sprinter and the tiny house. 

Idaho Bobwrote:

How much are you paying per gallon?  Our latest fill at the end of May was 375.4 gallons at $3.05/gal. so that's $1,145 for 5 months in a cold climate with furnace running everyday. Previous fill was January 7 @ $2.37/gal.  We have propane for heat, hot water and cooking. We do have a very well insulated house.  And we've shopped around for suppliers and found a small, local company with better prices (and service) than the big national brands.

If you're considering electric for cooking, look at induction stoves.  While they are expensive and require special pans, they are VERY efficient and therefore popular in Spain where electric is very expensive.

I had one house with baseboard electric heat, very inefficient.  Another with electric forced air heat/air conditioning that was OK.

We are paying $4.41 per gallon and we have a 250 gallon tank. I’m not home right now so I will have to gather up my recent bills and see how long that lasted but again we are only using propane for the water heater and the indoor furnace which we seldom use. We could empty out a full tank of propane really easy if we left the heater on as needed so instead we’ve been using room heaters.

All of our other appliances are electric, including the stove, and I really don’t like our stove! Tony is a good chef and he thinks it’s fine so maybe it’s just me but if I put a skillet on the stove top to cook an egg it will take up to 10 minutes to get hot enough to fry the egg. If I crank it up way high to get that heat faster then it takes far too long to lower the heat to a reasonable level. So I have been fighting with the damn stove ever since we got it. Russ was referring to a neighborhood post of mine where  neighbors were saying that their propane stoves burn way too hot all the time and they can’t get a low enough flame, so that’s news to me. At this point I just think the bills are alarming and I am trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Lori Milaswrote:

All of our other appliances are electric, including the stove, and I really don’t like our stove! Tony is a good chef and he thinks it’s fine so maybe it’s just me but if I put a skillet on the stove top to cook an egg it will take up to 10 minutes to get hot enough to fry the egg. If I crank it up way high to get that heat faster then it takes far too long to lower the heat to a reasonable level. So I have been fighting with the damn stove ever since we got it. Russ was referring to a neighborhood post of mine where  neighbors were saying that their propane stoves burn way too hot all the time and they can’t get a low enough flame, so that’s news to me. At this point I just think the bills are alarming and I am trying to figure out how to deal with it.

That (instant temp control) behavior is why good chefs prefer gas or if they can't get that electric induction

$300 a month to heat water says to me you have a problem.  We are on propane at a few places and it is about 1.5 tank fills per year @ 4 to 6 hundred per fill.  We run no furnace here at my real house, but have a propane water heater, propane clothes dryer, propane range and do 1 fill per year.

How old is your water heater?  Is it insulated?  Ever notice any dead plants around the path from your propane tank to the house?

Couple thoughts, maybe they were already addressed and I missed them:

Have you checked for leaks in the system ?  Is it possible your propane person is a thief (i.e., not really putting in the amount they claim) ?

My wife and I both cook a lot.  We have induction and although it was a bit of a pain to learn at first, once I learned the power levels I liked it better than gas, mostly because of cost.  It is extremely efficient because almost all heating energy goes directly to the pan.  And the power boost level really heats things up fast !

Tim Schafstallwrote:

My wife and I both cook a lot.  We have induction and although it was a bit of a pain to learn at first, once I learned the power levels I liked it better than gas, mostly because of cost.  It is extremely efficient because almost all heating energy goes directly to the pan.  And the power boost level really heats things up fast !

Are special pots and pans still a requirement for inducition? We have some really nice heavy cast iron pots, pans, and braziers.  I will be sad if we can only use them in the oven and not on the stove top.

S. Neohwrote:

Are special pots and pans still a requirement for inducition? We have some really nice heavy cast iron pots, pans, and braziers.  I will be sad if we can only use them in the oven and not on the stove top.

My understanding is that if a magnet sticks to the bottom of the pan, it's good. We're planning to switch to induction if/when our present trusty electric cooktop fails. I've checked and most of our pots and pans pass the test.

Russ Wallingwrote:

$300 a month to heat water says to me you have a problem.  We are on propane at a few places and it is about 1.5 tank fills per year @ 4 to 6 hundred per fill.  We run no furnace here at my real house, but have a propane water heater, propane clothes dryer, propane range and do 1 fill per year.

How old is your water heater?  Is it insulated?  Ever notice any dead plants around the path from your propane tank to the house?

Russ do you think you could find a time to come check this out? I just talked to the propane company and it looks like in four months we used 400 gallons of propane. I told him it was only to heat hot water and he said well if you like to take baths or hot showers you could use up to 4 gallons of propane per hour. That’s insane.  

Just when I thought we had exhausted all possible topics we now have enough material for a thread on conduction stove tops.    

S. Neohwrote:

Are special pots and pans still a requirement for inducition? We have some really nice heavy cast iron pots, pans, and braziers.  I will be sad if we can only use them in the oven and not on the stove top.

Your cast iron stuff will be good. 

Whatever you do don't buy a Viking stove. We bought a house about 10 years ago, and this stove came with it. The stove is impressive to see, all pro looking and all. But, the range of heat is lousy. Hot isn't the kind of hot you want for the cast iron, and the only way to simmer is to stack two burners on top of the other to get the pot up far enough away from the flame.

For example, a good way to sear a thick steak is to heat the iron pan to 500 degrees in the oven, then pull it out and super heat it on a full blast burner. Toss the oiled, seasoned steak in for 30 seconds a side. Finish it as you like, the best is to finish it back in the hot oven two minutes a side. The damned Viking POS won't get hot enough to do it right. The steak should almost jump around when it hits that pan, but instead the pan is actually cooling off. I do it on the gas grill and it's perfect every time. Close the hood 'till the pan is hot, open the hood, turn the burners up to full blast and proceed. Mmm.

Somewhat OT rant over, but we were talking stoves, sort of. We can talk steaks if you want. Tony served up steaks when I visited him and Lori. Mmm... They're into quality ingredients, as am I, although it's getting harder to do these days.

Kristian, I've started following the Snake River Farms instructions for steaks: season with salt and pepper, sear for a few minutes in a lightly oiled cast iron skillet over medium high heat, transfer to a 350 degree oven for 10-20 minutes (turning once), depending on how you like your steak done. For outdoor grilling, I just throw the steaks right on the grill and close the hood with the propane set to high. Going for simple every time. But maybe our steaks aren't as thick as yours - probably about 1 and 1/2 inches. 

When I grill  I use  a real  wood fire. Lots of sea salt,  garlic, pepper and tarragon.  Just when it's just about done  I glaze it with maple syrup. 

PTRwrote:

Have always wanted to do this one.  [Yum Yum Yab Yum]. Thanks for the inspiration.  Any beta for finding the start?

Hmm...it is nondescript in a region that is generally nondescript.  It is a slab that comes right down to the climber trail.  At the left edge of the slab about 20 feet up, just past a tree, is a left-facing inside corner, perhaps15-20 feet high, whose right wall is maybe three feet deep.  At the top of the corner is a pretty big tree and another one just above that on a ledge.  Above that is a noticeably steeper buttress.  That's about the best I can do.  Here is a picture of the first pitch copied from Mountain Project. The climber is approaching the inside corner.

wendy weisswrote:

Kristian, I've started following the Snake River Farms instructions for steaks: season with salt and pepper, sear for a few minutes in a lightly oiled cast iron skillet over medium high heat, transfer to a 350 degree oven for 10-20 minutes (turning once), depending on how you like your steak done. For outdoor grilling, I just throw the steaks right on the grill and close the hood with the propane set to high. Going for simple every time. But maybe our steaks aren't as thick as yours - probably about 1 and 1/2 inches. 

1 1/2 is perfect. Maybe a NY cut. Your method is definitely more refined and less violent than mine   . But they sure do come out nicely... 

One thing is to get the "rest" right. Don't guess, use a thermometer. When it hits 120 it's perfect. Too soon is, well, too soon.

I'm grilling for a couple friends tomorrow night, but it's marinated pork and beef kabobs, grilled asparagus, and smoked potatoes. You can make these little rafts of asparagus with the same wooden skewers you use for the meat. One trick is to soak the skewers for a half hour or so, they don't burn up as fast.

I'm probably grossing out the veggies on this thread. Apologies. I was a veggie for 15 years, college into the first phase of real life. 

As an aside, my first chicken for many years was at a dinner of about 40 with the King of Norway. I ate what they served. The reason I was there was because my great uncle was Erik "Bloodaxe" Solem, the Norwegian high court judge who sentenced many Nazi's to die, including Quisling himself, after the war. Those pigs didn't exactly get time to appeal. They got enough time for a cigarette.  I ate chicken. It was good.

Gradually I went fish-atarian, then chick-atarian. Then I had a nasty broken wrist. Surgery, external fixator, the whole deal. Healing went pretty well, then I plateaued. The doc asked me about my diet, and advised me to get more real proteins and aminos and all that. I'll never forget walking by the meat counter at Gelson's. The steaks were talking to me. "Eat me, eat me..." I told the butcher my situation, I hadn't eaten meat in years, what should I try. He cut me a few slices off a London Broil and gave them to me. "Sautee gently in butter."

I'll never forget sitting in a damn 3 season tent in a storm in Joshua Tree with Jan. It was butt cold, and the tent was barely adequate. And we were cooking thin slices of London Broil in the vestibule. 

My wrist healed well. And f*ck 3 season tents. Gimme a real tent any day, you never know what's gonna happen.

Kristian, your great uncle sounds amazing. (I googled him.)

For grilled steak, I prefer filet. But NY strip takes stir fries and kebabs up a notch. It's been many years since we cooked anything in a tent vestibule. Sadly, the beef was mostly Richmoor. I miss the tent, but not the food.