Why Not Top Belay/Retrievable Rappel off a Beckett (actually a Blackwall) Hitch?

Eric Mosswrote:

Are you talking about Clifford Ashley?

1875- "Is never quite safe"

1876- "Even less reliable"

Well that answers my questions

I don’t understand why someone would even consider this knot.  

Well if it was deemed unsafe and unreliable for hauling crates off boats in the 1870’s, 1944, it stands to reason that it’d be perfectly suited to life safety applications in 2022.

Edit above,  per below illumination on knot numbering…And I actually knew that from Gommers years ago, but forgot about ABoK numbers.  The illustrations looked from 1870’s though..

While I can see why you might think that 1875 and 1876 are years, they are not--they are knot numbers. The Blackwall hitch is the 1875th knot in Ashley's book of knots, and the Double Blackwall hitch is the 1876th. Because of the popularity of Ashley's book and the numbering system used, knot tying circles will often refer to knots by their number in Ashley's book, which can be helpful in unambiguously identifying knots with obscure or varied names. For example the figure 8 retrace is ABoK 1047 while the double bowline is ABoK 1013. Ashley's Book of Knots was published in 1944.

These photos are giving me anxiety 

B C wrote:

Did Ashley die from a knot failure or a failure to understand knots?

He did knot. 

rocknice2wrote:

I hope your climbing partner realizes your incompetence to asses risk, before it's too late.

Your comparing yourself to Socrates. You are the rock climbing equivalent of Solar Roadways

Soooooo glad I don't climb with that gumby anymore.  He always wanted to do ground-up FAs on total choss piles.  He's smart but without a lick of sense.

Jake Winegradwrote:

Soooooo glad I don't climb with that gumby anymore.  He always wanted to do ground-up FAs on total choss piles.  He's smart but without a lick of sense.

Please elaborate.

Matt Robinsonwrote:

In that case off the top of my head I would rather use a firecracker with a really long wick as a fiddle stick for a retrievable rappel than any method you've suggested.  Set up your rap, light the wick, rap fast and hope you anchor in again before you hear a pop, otherwise the pop gets followed by a dull thud.

Thank you for this - made me laugh. Funniest thing I have read in a while. 

grug gwrote:

Thank you for this - made me laugh. Funniest thing I have read in a while. 

I remember once reading the idea of using some 6mm cord as a 'one-time, retrievable rappel'. Tie the end of the rope to the loop of cord, everyone raps single-strand, and the last climber lights the tail of the cord's knot on fire and has a few minutes to reach the next belay before the flame reaches the knot and the whole thing melts and comes loose   

Just carry a tag line(4mm amsteel is great 1.5lbs for 200') or an escaper FFS.
That is one of the least secure hitches possible and should only be used for non living things unless you want to become the non living thing of course.

There are better sketchy hitches for this ill advised purpose, and all really should only be used for live loads when things are in dire straights.

Hey guys is this safe to rap off?

Yellow rubber band secures rope for rap and then you pull the rope by yanking just like the bealls escapade. I’m using a keychain biner because I don’t want to leave the locker I stole from my gym and I can’t figure out how to get the rope through the chains… why don’t they have openable gates climbing is impossible!!!

Anyway I think this could really transform the sport and I don’t see any dangers. I’m at the cliff now about to try it wish me luck!

J Ewrote:

Hey guys is this safe to rap off?

Yellow rubber band secures rope for rap and then you pull the rope by yanking just like the bealls escapade. I’m using a keychain biner because I don’t want to leave the locker I stole from my gym and I can’t figure out how to get the rope through the chains… why don’t they have openable gates climbing is impossible!!!

Anyway I think this could really transform the sport and I don’t see any dangers. I’m at the cliff now about to try it wish me luck!

The biner is upside down.

Simply put, never trust your life to a single friction hitch.

J Ewrote:

Hey guys is this safe to rap off?

Yellow rubber band secures rope for rap and then you pull the rope by yanking just like the bealls escapade. I’m using a keychain biner because I don’t want to leave the locker I stole from my gym and I can’t figure out how to get the rope through the chains… why don’t they have openable gates climbing is impossible!!!

Anyway I think this could really transform the sport and I don’t see any dangers. I’m at the cliff now about to try it wish me luck!

Be sure to use a fresh rubber band or one that has been exercised daily.

Proper use of a blackwall hitch. Sorry for the shitty quality, I think y'all can get the gist though. #1875 in Ashleys book of knots. Sailors used (and still do use) this hitch to tension the lanyards for shrouds of ships. It's great because the working end comes tight on top of the bitter end, and thereby creates enough friction to stay on and not slip. We use come alongs to crank these things tight, and that process applies a constant strain to keep tension. It's nice because, as others said, you can haul that rope tight as shit, and then take the hitch off later without trouble. Our rope is thicker, not as smooth and slippery, our hooks are appropriately sized (or we find one that is) so that A) hitch doesnt slide down the back of the hook, which it can do without holding tension, and B) the working end actually tightens on top of the bitter end.

Do your homework. Bring a tag line. Leave gear behind for the mountain gods. Go home in your car, not a coffin.