A Conversation about "Psyche"

As climbers we toss this word around alot, "psyche". "He has alot of psyche" we say, but what does it mean to you, and how does it affect climbing and climbers?

Let this podcast be the impetus: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/is-toxic-positivity-a-thing/

Specifically, the mention of "hypo-mania" strikes home to "psyche". 

How does psyche play into risk assessment etc?

Lack of direct and indirect distractions, feeling energized, and clipping the bolt on Double Cross.

"Over-stoker" is the term you are looking for. Stoke and psyche are good. Over-stoke leads to all kinds of trouble.

they are just bro terms for being excited/passionate about something. no more, no less...

curt86iroc wrote:

they are just bro terms for being excited/passionate about something. no more, no less...

Call it whatever you like, is there a negative element to all that "psych"? Is it a form of mania? Does it cloud risk assessment?

Tradiban wrote:

Call it whatever you like, is there a negative element to all that "psych"? Is it a form of mania? Does it cloud risk assessment?

Yes, yes, and yes.
It's much better to be calm and collected. All of the best climbers I know are. Anything else is just an energy leak. 

 It’s much easier to see that type of thing happening real time in other sports. I think that someone with good “psyche” is easy to see in something like MMA. In a fight, someone with good psyche manages to turn a bad or chaotic situation into a great one for themselves. While people with bad psyche tend to lose every fight they have that ever turns south for them. 

Having good psyche is having the ability to stay cool and collective in high stress situations. Also being able to perform to a high degree under those situations 

Better to just have that certain “je ne sais quoi”  and joie de vivre,  vs Ubermutigkeit or uberschwanglichkeit typically associated with “psyche”….if you know what I mean.

In other words, a modicum of stoke goes a long way.   Gotta keep your wits about you.  Nobody feels comfortable around a jumpy chihuahua wetting itself at every squirrel. 

Erik Strand wrote:

 It’s much easier to see that type of thing happening real time in other sports. I think that someone with good “psyche” is easy to see in something like MMA. In a fight, someone with good psyche manages to turn a bad or chaotic situation into a great one for themselves. While people with bad psyche tend to lose every fight they have that ever turns south for them. 

Having good psyche is having the ability to stay cool and collective in high stress situations. Also being able to perform to a high degree under those situations 

Obviously I'm with you on "cool and collected."

I wasn't thinking about the "good psyche" part of the picture. It was judgmental of me, but I jumped straight to the more manic psyche I see that gets climbers into trouble, and is just plain annoying to be around. My wife is hooked on MMA, so I end up watching a lot. You're 100% right about that. A solid point.

Kristian Solem wrote:

Yes, yes, and yes.
It's much better to be calm and collected. All of the best climbers I know are. Anything else is just an energy leak. 

I think that being extremely motivated or psyched does not necessarily correlate to not being calm or collected while climbing. For me I am almost always psyched, but that could mean many things. I think the negatives of being too psyched can fall under safety categories in a lot of circumstances, especially involving inexperienced climbers. A lot of younger, super psyched climbers find themselves being too motivated to climb and end up overtraining and a lot of times getting injured. But I think that being psyched is the most important thing in climbing, there’s really no point in subjecting yourself to this strange sport without loving it.

Hubris.

Nathaniel F wrote:

I think that being extremely motivated or psyched does not necessarily correlate to not being calm or collected while climbing. For me I am almost always psyched, but that could mean many things. I think the negatives of being too psyched can fall under safety categories in a lot of circumstances, especially involving inexperienced climbers. A lot of younger, super psyched climbers find themselves being too motivated to climb and end up overtraining and a lot of times getting injured. But I think that being psyched is the most important thing in climbing, there’s really no point in subjecting yourself to this strange sport without loving it.

Overtraining, yea, I didn't even think of that, totally a negative of being "psyched". 

Regarding safety, I think the concept applies heavily to inexperienced climbers who perhaps found the sport recently and are "super psyched". They are running up anything that catches their eye, throwing themselves at climbs that might be a bit above their pay grade much to chagrin of their partners. It's all good as long as they are plugging the proper gear but I have definitely witnessed the psyched climber running it out wildly in search of the "thank God jug". 

What is the connection, or disconnection, between Pysche and Flow.

Can psyche impede or promote flow?

Tradiban wrote:

Call it whatever you like, is there a negative element to all that "psych"? Is it a form of mania? Does it cloud risk assessment?

I just listened to the linked piece... interesting!

For climbing?

I would say climbing is inherently optimistic. Even if it seems the goal is unlikely, we choose to consider it, and, perhaps try.

As to risk assessment?

I don't think it clouds judgement by being that positive person your podcasters were referencing. What I see, that is very dangerous? Those people that we shake our heads at, and will not be surprised if we hear they've crash and burned.

My guess is it isn't over optimism, it's more complicated, those people who seem so far from reality. Since the ones who come to mind are all young military vets? That suggests refighting battles and trauma.

There is also the addictive aspect of pushing too hard, training too much.....but what's too much??? If they are successful and ripped, they're admired. Die trying or fall into an eating disorder? Hmmmm.

Best, Helen

Tradiban wrote:

Overtraining, yea, I didn't even think of that, totally a negative of being "psyched". 

Regarding safety, I think the concept applies heavily to inexperienced climbers who perhaps found the sport recently and are "super psyched". They are running up anything that catches their eye, throwing themselves at climbs that might be a bit above their pay grade much to chagrin of their partners. It's all good as long as they are plugging the proper gear but I have definitely witnessed the psyched climber running it out wildly in search of the "thank God jug". 

Oh come on dude, i was conserving my gear. had nothing to do with Psych! 

https://youtu.be/QgXObaM9i2Q

J R wrote:

Oh come on dude, i was conserving my gear. had nothing to do with Psych! 

Don't flatter yourself, this thread isn't about you. I believe you have just the right amount of psyche actually. A muerte!

Man Clint Eastwood was so psyched on climbing in the Eiger Sanction when he was chasing that hot babe up the rocks! I want to get stoked like Clint but not that ruthless dude was handing out sanctions like it was Christmas morning

You have to have SOME psyche. Not too much, but some.

Call it whatever you want. Excitement, motivation, positive attitude…

If you ever had a wet-blanket partner who is clearly unmotivated to be there, yet, for some reason, is still there… you would know that complete lack of psyche can even drain excitement, motivation, and joy from those around the glum guy. 

I can definitely be the glum guy when I'm around people that are too psyched. 

As a way over psyched person all the time, maybe I see this as a personal attack but I strongly disagree. The issue isn’t the psyche it is managing emotions. Imagine a situation: mid multi pitch with a committing traverse. You are psyched but struggled with the earlier significantly easier pitch. You maybe should consider backing off.

Now imagine the same situation with someone who is unintersted in the traverse pitch. They give you a garbage belay, then they follow the pitch. After the pitch they tell you they wanna go home. It’s a nightmare to rap down the last pitch but they insistent they wanna go home. Now you are in another poor situation.

Both these situations are better if people manage their emotions and communicate.

That’s why when my dog starts barking at me after pitch 3, we rap back down. We communicate effectively.