Gyms Removing Auto-belays

Parachute Adamswrote:

Trevor, you sure have alot of opinions on gyms for someone who one page ago claimed to not go to gyms.

Yes he does.

M Mwrote:

Yes he does.

I’m happy to give an uniformed and useless opinion any time.

Trevor Taylorwrote:

I’m happy to give an uniformed and useless opinion any time.

We know.

Trevor Taylorwrote:

I’m happy to give an uniformed and useless opinion any time.

Mtn proj is the place to be then, nice work.

It would be interesting to know the accident rate for auto-belays vs human belayers at gyms.

Hey bruh you want to belay me? Ok hold on while I secure my 3 sweatbands. I'm thinking of just doing laps for 30 minutes and get aggressively sweaty. O you're walking away. It's fine this gym has auto...

brian nwrote:

It would be interesting to know the accident rate for auto-belays vs human belayers at gyms.

This is completely anecdotal, but since my local gym opened back up in March, I have personally witnessed two auto-belay accidents(one which resulted in death) and I have not once seen a grounder where a human belay was involved(in a gym). Someone said there had been 6 AB accidents since reopening.

Franck Veewrote:

Even the safest setup is prone to human error- no helmet?

SinRopa wrote:

Not specifically directed at the above post, but am I correct in assuming that these AB accidents we hear about are all the result of human error?  As in, has an AB ever failed and just dumped some poor guy from the top of the wall, or are all these people not clipping in correctly?

If it’s climbers (using that term loosely) not using the AB correctly, removing them from gyms seems less preferable than figuring out how to better educate people on their correct use.  We don’t take seatbelts out of cars after accidents where people didn’t put them on...

Yes, it's all been human error.

People have been educated, like they have been on driving cars but accidents still happen. 

Ban auto belays.

I can't speak for anyone else but, I trust my self on an auto-belay more than I trust a human belaying me. I also trust rapping over being lowered.

brian nwrote:

I can't speak for anyone else but, I trust my self on an auto-belay more than I trust a human belaying me. I also trust rapping over being lowered.

You need to trust someone before its too late. Namaste.

M Mwrote:

You need to trust someone before its too late. Namaste.

Notice the words: more and over.

It is a matter of degrees, not either/or. As a general rule I tend not trust random people in a gym with my life and safety. Once I get to know someone the amount of trust can build, or not, and I may exchange belays.

I have seen inexperienced climbers use autobelays for routes well to the left or right, and just continue climbing regardless, ending up a couple meters off line and sometimes higher than the autobelay.  As well as getting twisted round when they eventually ran out of strength to keep holding on at the top, does the system still “work” if someone comes off before downclimbing/traversing  to be at least close to in line.  

brian nwrote:

Notice the words: more and over.

It is a matter of degrees, not either/or. As a general rule I tend not trust random people in a gym with my life and safety. Once I get to know someone the amount of trust can build, or not, and I may exchange belays.

You said you dont trust other people, not strangers. 

I used to go to a plain ole gym. Ok it wasn't plain at all, it was pretty damn nice. But it wasn't a rock gym. The nearest rock gym was too far away to justify the cost. Anyway this gym is a huge facility with a very high central roof, so when they built it they put in a climbing rig. It had three (easy) routes and an autobelay. I loved that thing. Literally no one else used it, or if they did it was so infrequently as I never saw them. It was like my own private autobelay. 

The routes were easy enough that you would feel a bit foolish putting on real rock shoes, and certainly that would be out of place in this gym, at that time. I made them harder by eliminating holds. Actually I "opened" (haha) two new routes on it that only used the climbing features of the wall textures; no holds for hands or feet - those were harder.

Anyway, I just loved doing mindless laps on it, 10, 15, 20 reps, music in my ears, focused in my own world. As soon as the lower-down was complete I'd start up again. I loved it.

Then one day, one of those other users I never saw, forget to clip in and suffered some injury while falling or lowering off. I never knew the exact circumstances around the accident I only knew it was user-error. So their insurance covered everything but then insisted on implementing new policy.

A gym employee had to check your clip-in, and then stand there and watch you like a guard watching a convict exercise in the SuperMax pen. I could not abide it. In one day it went from this cool isolation exercise to feeling like a jerk for doing laps with some employee standing there watching me. I stopped using it, and then within a month I quite the gym. Fuck those guys.

I miss my little private autobelay.

It is  a decision that will be made by gym owners, judges, lawyers, and insurance companies.  This is isn't about trying to minimize health risk, but rather legal risk and so you know ours will only be voices in the wind. 

My gym is also getting rid of autobelays. I just wish I had another gym near by that offered it. I would drive a reasonable distance further for it. But the nearest gym that still offers autobelays is an hour away. I am having to find brand new partners who are willing to train with me. So I am now having to trust partners some of who are less experienced, and potentially having to spend twice as much time at the gym to get the same work out. Not to mention now I have to coordinate before going to the gym. It just sucks. I really don’t have time for that. Sigh.

I talked to folks at work, and non-climbers were all horrified at the prospect of having to have a buddy to go to the gym. They all said they just wouldn’t go. So not sure why climbers all say we just need to be more social or be a part of community and all that. I just want to get the most out of the gym in the limited time I have.

If it means I get to use the autobelay, I wouldn’t mind a gym worker checking my system. Why not. 

Excellent (better) substitute for autobelay, no partner required=bouldering, spray wall, systems wall, Moon/Kilter/Tension boards. You can easily do power, power-endurance, endurance on these AND be more efficient. Autobelays are for birthday parties. 

Frank Steinwrote:

Excellent (better) substitute for autobelay, no partner required=bouldering, spray wall, systems wall, Moon/Kilter/Tension boards. You can easily do power, power-endurance, endurance on these AND be more efficient. Autobelays are for birthday parties. 

Depends on your level. I can’t do ARC on a bouldering wall as I am not strong enough. I also have bad joints and can’t fall off bouldering problems which means I won’t be able to push my limits at the gym. I also do aerobic endurance type training on the crack which is currently on an autobelay which I won’t be be able to do. So it really depends. 

clee 03mwrote:

Depends on your level. I can’t do ARC on a bouldering wall as I am not strong enough. I also have bad joints and can’t fall off bouldering problems which means I won’t be able to push my limits at the gym. I also do aerobic endurance type training on the crack which is currently on an autobelay which I won’t be be able to do. So it really depends. 

The very notion of ARCing on a Moon board makes me laugh. I mean, if I could do that...