Introducing Climb United

Mark Pilatewrote:

Haha, my first redaction! 

Oh no! Welcome to being repressed. Shall we all talk about 1984 now?

On a more serious note, I see no reason to make fun of the culture warriors personally. They've already been fooled into focusing on made up stuff, no need to pile on. I mean, make fun of their "ideas," sure. But not them personally. 

Poor guy is clearly going through some stuff. And as bad as angry media is, it's still probably a less damaging drug than heroin or booze. 

Creed Archibaldwrote:

Thanks. I feel seen. 

I don't think your subjugation metaphor holds up. I don't support this initiative because someone is forcing me. I support this initiative because I don't want to be an asshole. I'm willing to mildly inconvenience myself so other people can feel welcome and included. There's just no reason for a route like "N*ggers Leap" to keep its name. Change it to "Big Leap." And please don't come at me with that slippery slope fallacy. 

You’re so racist that you think all black people are capable of a big leap. Why not normal jump or small skip?

In all seriousness I agree with you about names that blatantly asshole-esque.

But what are the practices limiting access to climbing the OP speaks of? 

B Pwrote:

But what are the practices limiting access to climbing the OP speaks of? 

Now there’s the real question. No one seems to know that answer, except for  “cultural preferences”. 

Four posts flagged in the first three pages. You can almost feel the unity developing already. 

Greg Daviswrote:

"Dickbutts AssBlaster Offwidth."

dibbs

So what happens if I put a route with a guy named Tom  who happens to be my uncle and his friend who happens to be the lead singer of the stones and I want to name the route in their honor?

Yeah Uncle Tom and many of those others listed are not actually slurs. Most of the disability ones are just insults 

oldfattradguuy kkwrote:

So what happens if I put a route with a guy named Tom  who happens to be my uncle and his friend who happens to be the lead singer of the stones and I want to name the route in their honor?

Uncle Tom Jagger?

Daniel Chode Riderwrote:

Yeah Uncle Tom and many of those others listed are not actually slurs.

Um,...

https://equip.sbts.edu/article/demythologizing-the-uncle-tom-myth-and-the-n-word/

...since Harriet Beecher Stowe’s scandalous novel, Uncle Tom’s Cabin, the phrase “Uncle Tom” has functioned as racist hate-speech from the mouths of black Americans against other black Americans....

As a result of this character’s devotion to his white master, the phrase “Uncle Tom” eventually entered into popular American culture as a derogatory epithet directed toward black Americans by black Americans. In general, some black Americans call other black Americans “Uncle Tom” when the “real” blacks perceive the “sell-out” blacks as caring more about pleasing the white man than about preserving African-American identity and particularity. The former group believes that the latter group is not being true to its African-American-ness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/dear-white-people-stop-using-the-term-uncle-tom/2018/11/15/8a68e9c0-e84e-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93059468

Daniel Chode Riderwrote:

Yeah Uncle Tom and many of those others listed are not actually slurs. Most of the disability ones are just insults 

I'm an uber free speech supporter, but the fact that you don't realize Uncle Tom is a slur means you really aren't qualified to opine on this topic, sorry.

Daniel Chode Riderwrote:

Yeah Uncle Tom and many of those others listed are not actually slurs. Most of the disability ones are just insults 

Per Wikipedia:

The term "Uncle Tom" is used as a derogatory epithet for an excessively subservient person, particularly when that person perceives their own lower-class status based on race.

So a thing I was taught from a young age (in a conservative Christian household, though my beliefs have changed over time) is that your intention matters very little compared to the outcome. If you don’t mean something as a slur, but a Black or disabled person thinks it is, you should probably listen to them on it. If you make a joke at someone’s expense, and they find it mean spirited even if you meant it in jest, own up and make it right.

I’m not saying either of our opinions are irrelevant here. But we as young able bodied white dudes (assuming based on your avatar here and the fact that you’re a climber) have a fundamentally different life experience from someone who comes from a different background, and it’s important to recognize that. It’s not about being erased or silenced or being told you’re an asshole, it’s about just taking note of that difference and conducting ourselves in a manner that is most courteous to everyone. 

Can we say "Aunt Tom" ?  Also, Isn't "dyke" a British variant spelling of "dike"? Context matters. "retarded" "retard" and "cripple" can also all  be a completely innocuous. Words are continually being coopted by some as insults. Do we have to keep bowing to those who do and nulling our lexicon, or should we focus on the intent? "Niger" is the name of a river and a country (so "Floating down the Hudson" is fine but "Floating down the Niger" is bad??. "Spick and span" as in spotlessly clean? So many of these lists are based on very limited knowledge of language. You might have a word that has been used for 1000 years innocuously, but because some use it as derogatory slang for a few years it must be ditched completely.

Bowing to the mob

When it comes to language (although this could apply to many other things) I always think "how would a reasonable person take this?" That is sufficient most of the time. However it seems to be sufficient less and less often. I find myself wondering why that is.

M Spraguewrote:

Can we say "Aunt Tom" ?  Also, Isn't "dyke" a British variant spelling of "dike"? Context matters. "retarded" "retard" and "cripple" can also all  be a completely innocuous. Words are continually being coopted by some as insults. Do we have to keep bowing to those who do and nulling our lexicon, or should we focus on the intent? "Niger" is the name of a river and a country. "Spick and span" as in spotlessly clean? So many of these lists are based on very limited knowledge of language. You might have a word that has been used for 1000 years innocously, but because some use it as derogatory slang for a few years it must be ditched completely.

Let's try this one more time for the kids sleeping in the back row:

*You* don't get to decide what is racist if you are not in the marginalized group.

You. Have. No. Say. In. The. Matter.

Marc801 Cwrote:

Let's try this one more time for the kids sleeping in the back row:

*You* don't get to decide what is racist if you are not in the marginalized group.

You. Have. No. Say. In. The. Matter.

Well, I disagree with that blanket statement. If you were to take that at face value, would a white person for instance, in a minority situation be right in designating anything they wanted as "racist"  even if it was because they misunderstood or weren't familiar with the full breadth of a language or were lacking in historical knowledge beyond their personal experience?

Knowing the context of Uncle Tom, why would you even think to make that your route name?

Are you happy to be shitty to other people on a technicality? Do you really have an uncle named Tom, and you really want to embody his relationship with you in a route? Or are you coming up with nonsense hypotheticals to poke fake holes in a reasonable discussion?

Feel free to call your route some fucked up name with an asterisk my king. You will sure trigger some LIBS!! Super edgy. 

Greg Daviswrote:

Knowing the context of Uncle Tom, why would you even think to make that your route name?

Are you happy to be shitty to other people on a technicality? Do you really have an uncle named Tom, and you really want to embody his relationship with you in a route? Or are you coming up with nonsense hypotheticals to poke fake holes in a reasonable discussion?

Feel free to call your route some fucked up name with an asterisk my king. You will sure trigger some LIBS!! Super edgy. 

If  someone is trying to weasel a hateful attack in by parsing words in a name with a wink, wink, then their  intent is there. 

(for Ben below) Sometimes, often not though, even if started from a good impulse. There are lots of examples, from Hypatia  to the Red Guard

Whisk3rzz 1wrote:

Bowing to the mob

Turns out the mob is right sometimes.

I agree with the goals of the Climb United program but can't help but feel cynical when I read the description. Do they really need to to have sponsors and corporate logos? It seems superficial and half-hearted.