New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

Old lady H wrote:

Oh dear...

I'm drawn to that triangle. Chimney? Offwidth? How off? 

I'm doomed.

:-)

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105835376/junction-chimney

It’s 5.2, but I’m willing to bet the FA was at least a 5.6 climber...

Sam Cieply wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105835376/junction-chimney

It’s 5.2, but I’m willing to bet the FA was at least a 5.6 climber...

LMAO! 

An unprotected grovel! I really am doomed. Happily.

Ah well. :-)

Lori Milas wrote:

Helen... I’ve been finding this out!!!  Climbing here is macho stuff. I have a friend soon arriving who climbed El Cap with her son and I’m so interested to see how she takes to Josh.  I think she may be surprised.

Not to take anything away from Dierdre's cool experience. But she jugged a rope up El Cap with her son. She hasn't climbed El Cap. I bet she'll be delighted and, also, baffled by J-tree just like everyone else who encounters it for the first time. 

OLH.... you posted a photo of a 13a “sport climb” .... and it’s well protected too.

Do you have an example of a 5.10 “sport climb” in COR that’s excessively run out and put down by 12 climbers?    

I’d like to see it.

Most folks doing top down route development don’t sandbag or make dangerous climbs. Around here in SoCal “we” will go and add bolts to their climbs- after giving them warning that “we” will fix the mess if they don’t.

If done from the ground- it is what it is and only the FA team can fix. 

And- OLH- don’t confuse “mixed” with “sport” they are different animals.

(I had a brilliant post all written out but my connection is wonky this morning) 

Erika wrote a excellent post about grades, bolts etc

And as to finding good partners. I’m lucky- I have Stoney Point- most LA climbers go there, You can get to know most.
When Kris showed up he said he was from out of state. Said he liked adventures. When he said “yes” to Castle Rock Spire and actually went there he proved his self to the “gang”. A worthy addition it has turned out.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106501642/the-regular-route-castle-rock-spire

This is not a “sport climb” .... if your climbing it free you have sections of 5.10 without any close by protection points.

Andrew Rice wrote:

Not to take anything away from Dierdre's cool experience. But she jugged a rope up El Cap with her son. She hasn't climbed El Cap. I bet she'll be delighted and, also, baffled by J-tree just like everyone else who encounters it for the first time. 

Well now, I was trying to be generous!    Let’s just say this should be interesting.

Speaking of interesting: I bumped into a recent YouTube video of Alex Honnold chatting with Adam Ondra. What a fun contrast!  Adam was telling about his training schedule: two 3-hour sessions a day, strength, bouldering, speed... intensely trying to get ready for the olympics.  Yoga. AND bringing his girlfriend along who also competes. Classic Czech  Republic.  Giving 100% on every climb. 

And then there’s Alex, tan, chill saying “I dont like to work hard. I like to have fun. I’m not that strong. I’m spoiled with Yosemite... the 12 hour hike back from Patagonia was too much.”    No big future plans.

Guy Keesee wrote:

OLH.... you posted a photo of a 13a “sport climb” .... and it’s well protected too.

Do you have an example of a 5.10 “sport climb” in COR that’s excessively run out and put down by 12 climbers?    

I’d like to see it.

On Elephant Rock there are two 5.10a sport climbs.  Just Say Go was put up by Dan Sperlock in 1989.  First bolt is way up the slab and qualifies as runout IMHO and beyond that the interval between bolts is old school.  New School was bolted by Chris Barnes in 2013 and the bolt spacing much closer.  

Another 1989 Sperlock route is Scream Cheese, 5.9, on Anteater Rock.  While holds are larger than on Just Say Go, bolt spacing is again old school.

And then there is Dike of Gastonia, 5.7 R, on Stripe Rock,  Put up by Dave Bingham in 1980.  Not a 5.10, three grades lower!

Just a few of the runout routes at the City put up by high level climber.  

On Slick Rock in McCall the route Scenic Friction, 5.9 R trad has a sporty 5th pitch where I was only able to place 3 pieces in 180'.  That pitch is rated 5.8 R and I think qualifies as excessively run out.  That route was put up in 2004.  

Guy Keesee wrote:

OLH.... you posted a photo of a 13a “sport climb” .... and it’s well protected too.

Do you have an example of a 5.10 “sport climb” in COR that’s excessively run out and put down by 12 climbers?    

I’d like to see it.

Most folks doing top down route development don’t sandbag or make dangerous climbs. Around here in SoCal “we” will go and add bolts to their climbs- after giving them warning that “we” will fix the mess if they don’t.

If done from the ground- it is what it is and only the FA team can fix. 

And- OLH- don’t confuse “mixed” with “sport” they are different animals.

(I had a brilliant post all written out but my connection is wonky this morning) 

Erika wrote a excellent post about grades, bolts etc

And as to finding good partners. I’m lucky- I have Stoney Point- most LA climbers go there, You can get to know most.
When Kris showed up he said he was from out of state. Said he liked adventures. When he said “yes” to Castle Rock Spire and actually went there he proved his self to the “gang”. A worthy addition it has turned out.

That 13a is Jonathon Siegrist, lol! I thought Lori should have some past vertical "slab" to admire!

My last trip there, last season, we were staring at that thing. It's....well. Extremely improbable looking. We didn't even see a very promising way to get where it starts, lol! But yes, it's bolted just fine. 

I love City, very much! There is plenty of nice, well bolted stuff at all grades....and plenty of things that can raise an eyebrow. I've been fortunate to partner with people who can run a rope up fun stuff like Swiss Cheese! Trad...but not much. Better be way solid! Top rope? Yay! Thank you!!

One visit, I had quite the conversation with a fired up MP guy, who climbs a lot at Rifle. He was livid about something or other that day, that was sport, but, BUT!! HE COULD HAVE GOTTEN HURT!! He is a strong climber, and had strong opinions about what "sport" meant, and City did not meet his Rifle standards. La ti da.

I was highly amused.

My LOCAL "sport" is...well. It's badly bolted, for nowadays, but, it is what it is. Dangerous, for beginners, but somehow there's been only one fatality, and hardly ever any injuries. It's scary enough to give people who are new to it pause to consider. Until I climbed at City? And Maple Canyon? I had never been on 5.6-8 that was "cruiser" or without consequence if you fell in certain places, especially the first couple bolts, sometimes even farther up. I don't mean ledges, this is groundfall. Often, the anchors are out if reach for me, from the last stance. So I climb second, on top rope, and hang to clean. Rarely bother leading, nothing is fun enough to bother.

So, yes!! Mixed, I fully understand. I also understand, and relish, the way it is at COR. Spicy to "adventure" can be there. Yes, including "sport". "Mixed" you darn well better be ready for that. Even more so, "trad", as that "trad" label includes the stuff with little to no protection of any sort. Yowza!!

And?

I'm friends with some of these scary badasses who put up this stuff, and some who still climb it. I just go "Ooo! That looks fun!" knowing I can't even get a single move on the thing, lol! Go figure, eh?

Jay Goodwin has two routes, for an example, of an FA doing old school....and also new.

New Toy 5.10b R, is 115 ft. and 5 bolts, hand drilled on lead (per Bingham). I kinda think Jay was a grade or two up from "5.10" for that spicy FA, in the 1980s.

Nearby, another long route, 115 ft. and an X, from the early 80s....and is now a 10 bolt route. The very popular Mystery Achievement, now at 5.7 after Jay retro bolted it. But? You still have to pay attention on this safely bolted route...to get to the first bolt, and, it is a rope stretcher to rappel down, depending on what you do about the two slabs before the route starts. 

Without looking, I'm certain Mystery Achievement is in MP, and willing to bet New Toy is not. Gee, wonder why? There's tons in the book that is still not on MP, and a lot of it is fun old school stuff!

Sorry Jay, but Breadloaves is at the start of the book, so that's the fast first ones to pull out for Guy's request! 

:-)

EDIT to add, New Toy is not only on here, but has great comments about old school routes and runouts! I know three of the people commenting, too, lol! 

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105741098/new-toy

It's time to quit talking about grades and runouts etc., although I will say this, if a route is bolted on rappel, and it's dangerous, something ain't right. Pictures...

Keesee

Rob Brown is a player in all of these hijinks. We did more climbs in Josh than I can remember. I got this pic of him on the Bismarck ledge, top of pitch 23, Mescalito. El Cap.. He took me by surprise with the glasses and I almost fell off the ledge laughing ...

Have you been out to Samuelsson Rocks? In Josh.

I'm late in on the conversation about grades but a grade should be given to a route by consensus, where possible. This is why there's often so much chatter about grades at the extreme level. There's a very very small number of people deciding on the grade. Pooling ideas on grade also helps to negate grading a route too low because the style plays to one's strengths. Even at our little tiny climbing gym we are asked for opinions by the staff. 

Carl, Helen... you may be interested in this 5.8 caper The Flake.  As a mother, I want to spank this kid for taking such a risk.  As a climber, I just want to climb it (with a rope). 

Since Kris exposed how we met I think I should follow up with our first climb together.  After we met in Josh he and my wife climbed quite a bit together.  Come summer we were in Tuolumne for a couple weeks and Kris come up to join us.  For our first route I decided that we should climb Piece of Grass on Piwiak Dome.  It's a 10d R/X.  I led the first pitch, a full rope length and I got about 4 pieces of gear in.  Kris followed and when he got to the belay he remarked that the gear was a bit sparse.  I told him the next pitch was bolted and that he was up.  He climbed it just fine but after clipping the last bolt he started complaining about the runout to the belay.  It was a good solid 35+ feet of 5.10 climbing.  The belay turns out to be a couple old 1/4" bolts and so I follow and we leave Rachel at the top of the first pitch.  I then lead the 3rd pitch which is about 120 feet of 5.9 with no bolts.  I'm about 90 feet out and maybe I wiggled wrong but Kris tells me that I actually fall off he is cutting the rope because there is no way those bolts are going to hold a 180' factor 2 fall.  I agreed that was fair.  Been screwing with each other like that ever since.

Great story Jan!

Pywiack was one of my favorite Domes in Tuolumne. I think I've done every route on that slab: The Foott Route, Fort Knox, Golden Bars, Piece of Grass, Needle Spoon, and of course the Dike Route. The 5.11s (Fort Knox and Golden Bars) are like sport routes at the crux sections, since the bolts were bolt-laddered in on the lead by Vern Clevenger, but on the Dike Route and Piece of Grass you better not get off-route and miss a bolt or you're in big trouble....and the bolts are hard to see from 30 or 40 feet away!

Of all those routes, I think Piece of Grass might be my favorite. The first ascent was by none other than the Stonemaster team of Rick Accomazzo, Mike Graham, and Tobin Sorensen, back in 1974.

Jan Mc wrote:

I'm about 90 feet out and maybe I wiggled wrong but Kris tells me that I actually fall off he is cutting the rope because there is no way those bolts are going to hold a 180' factor 2 fall.  I agreed that was fair.  Been screwing with each other like that ever since.

I would have too. Kamps had told me to never limb without a knife. Right then I understood why   .

On one of those Meadows trips we walked out to have a look at Mystery Achievement and some Frenchies were on that hardish .11 to the right. They were making upward progress by clipping each successive bolt with a stick. They weren’t doing the route, it was doing them… So along came Waugh, and when they were done he cruised it clipping every other bolt. I think we did Mystery Achievement that day. Or another.

Back to Josh, The Flake is a fun route with an awkward start.

That guy looks a little sketch there where he plays around with his feet and then gets all stretched out reaching for the side pull. Talk about doing an easy move the hard way. If I was the person with the camera I’d have walked away right about then.

Kristian, Jan -- You are following in the footsteps of the greats. "Knife -- Indispensable. Should be instantly attainable. One of these saved several lives on the Matterhorn." Tom Patey, One Man's Mountains.

I think that scenario also figured in a very bad climbing movie some years back.

wendy weiss wrote:

Kristian, Jan -- You are following in the footsteps of the greats...

In my case it's more like "followed."   

Carl Schneider wrote:

I'm late in on the conversation about grades but a grade should be given to a route by consensus, where possible. This is why there's often so much chatter about grades at the extreme level. There's a very very small number of people deciding on the grade. Pooling ideas on grade also helps to negate grading a route too low because the style plays to one's strengths. Even at our little tiny climbing gym we are asked for opinions by the staff. 

Yeah, but if you look at here on MP where, just as you say, the rating is based on consensus, people who climb in particular areas tend to follow the lead of the local scale-ethic. One thing I think is missing from the YDS is any meaningful sense of what makes a particular grade that number/letter, other than being harder than what's below it on the scale and easier than something above.

I've really learned not to pay too much attention to grades and climb things that look interesting. I'm no great shakes as a climber but I'm skilled enough now to either cheat my way up things if I get in over my head or bail if I can't go up. That takes a lot of the drama out of jumping in too deep. 

I love these stories.  Please keep them coming.

I climbed a “stout 8” today, twice.  I was uncomfortable, clumsy, unsure and unstable.  I couldn’t see the foot placements—couldn’t find the right body English. It just puzzled me and didn’t get better. I kept wondering if I should just call it a day but I don’t quit, and especially on a low note.  I’ve never just walked away. Fortunately my partner called it... he was feeling unwell.  

And of course I’m thinking of the 10’s I aspire to. If I can’t manage this... then what? 

I don’t know what goes right or wrong to make a route successful (or not).  It’s not the route—it’s me.  Bad star alignment?  Very rare and long-lasting COVID vaccine side effects (as yet unknown) causing an abrupt decrease in climbing ability?   Biorhythms.

Absolutely unrelated but I love this ad! Yes! I have recently thrown a shoe at a spider and he fell behind our bed and I have worried that he is indeed upset.