5.12a trad send comparison to other sport accomplishments

Trying to send a 5.12a trad route or two by end of year.  When they ask, I'm having a hard time explaining to non climbing family and friends what this means in terms of difficulty level and thought maybe it'd be appropriate to relate it to more prevalent sports.  Any comparisons to toss out?  Shooting below par(golf)?  7 minute mile? 

Bonus points if supported by stats( ex x amount of climbers can send a 5.12 trad or two and x amount of golfers can shoot below par from time to time)

Put it in terms of how much work you had to do (x years of y sessions per week, z pounds lost, etc).

anyone relatively fit can run a 7 minute mile if they try hard enough, more like a sub 5 mile.

I can't answer your question. But it piqued my curiosity so did some online searching. Not a lot out there on performance stats for rock climbers, at least that I could find in a page or 2 of results.

I did note there are 24 million golfers in the US, by one estimate. Another guesstimate suggests that less than 1/2 of 1 % are considered <0 handicap. I'm sure the % of golfers who are lucky enough to pay below par at least once in any given year is probably much greater. Oh and I also read that the # of golfers who claim they are <0 handicap far outnumbers the golfers who actually ARE <0. :)

Another # I saw suggests almost 10 mil climbers in the US. Seems nearly outlandish to me, but obviously they are counting those who only climb indoors. Nothing on % of climbers performing at a certain grade, at least that I could find and no distinction between indoor and out.

As to the % of rock climbers that can consistently send 5.12a trad, ie, lead 5.12a on gear, is probably similar in achievement to shooting par or below, perhaps a tad easier. Raise the game to 12c and its probably about the same?

This is already super interesting, thank you for sharing!

the precentage of climbers who spray about climbing 12a trad or actually do it clean? 

Kole Hwrote:

anyone relatively fit can run a 7 minute mile if they try hard enough, more like a sub 5 mile.

Anyone relatively fit can also climb 12- trad. The problem is that folks don’t try hard enough and trad is scary. 

Kole Hwrote:

anyone relatively fit can run a 7 minute mile if they try hard enough, more like a sub 5 mile.

Anyone relatively fit can climb 5.12a if they try hard enough. I think the 7 minute claim is more accurate.

Sub 5 is where very few people go but most dedicated people who start young can do it, so 12+ or 13a. 

14a and the 4 minute mile have a lot in common. The psychology and history behind both are pretty similar. Maybe 14b.

My first 12 was trad and an on-site, so what do I know.

Slick spray mah duders!!!

Just go climbing and do your thang baby gurls

Scratch golf is probably 5.13- trad from a numbers perspective but from a pure difficulty aspect there’s no difference between trad and sport.

it's like catching the ball in the cup.

I believe climbing 5.12a trad could be best compared to yugen, which has been described by Zeami Motokiyo as "To watch the sun sink behind a flower clad hill. To wander on in a huge forest without thought of return. To stand upon the shore and gaze after a boat that disappears behind distant islands. To contemplate the flight of wild geese seen and lost among the clouds. And, subtle shadows of bamboo on bamboo." This description should hopefully satisfy your non-climber friends to whom you wish to spray...

@ 80+% on-sight @ 12a trad - maybe a 40-45 min or so 10k.

Your 12a "trad" project, all gear figured out and racked in sequence, all moves wired - I dunno, you and everyone else, who f'n cares, you're not even trad climbing.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117787505/maxaverage-grade-of-ticks-for-crag-by-climber-example-the-gunks

Thread above covers not only the Gunks but other popular crags as well. 

Adam Burch wrote:

We talking 12a?  or Woodsen 12a?

Woodsan is lite brah. NAWAMEAN?

Bill Schickwrote:

@ 80+% on-sight @ 12a trad - maybe a 40-45 min or so 10k.

Your 12a "trad" project, all gear figured out and racked in sequence, all moves wired - I dunno, you and everyone else, who f'n cares, you're not even trad climbing.

You tell him!! Way to hold the bar on trad!

Why do you need them to understand how difficult it is?

Frank Steinwrote:

Anyone relatively fit can also climb 12- trad. The problem is that folks don’t try hard enough and trad is scary. 

It's not that simple. The world is full of uber-fit people who will never be able to climb worth a damn no matter how hard they try. 

Having done both for over 40 years I would say leading 12a trad at a place like Joshua Tree or tahquitz, would be similar, in terms of how elite it is, to being able to break par on a championship golf course. Basically you have to be a pro, or a fairly special amateur.

Josh Lipkowrote:

Why do you need them to understand how difficult it is?

Particularly, some family members asked for comparisons, knowing that completing a 5.12 trad climb has been a goal of mine for a few years now and that for various reasons (skill level,kids, injury, life) hasn't been attainable.  They are looking for some reference point.  I remember seeing you passionately working on that 5.12d in the gym a while back and at the time, even though it was a gym climb, I never understood how difficult that climb really was.  Always helpful to have a point of reference IMO.