New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #12

Lori Milaswrote:

I am SO RELIEVED that most here let this go and returned to 'climbing'.  I had my last post on my mind, and wished I hadn't posted it.  It WAS off topic and I should have deleted it.  (Carl, it wasn't that there were tattoos, it's what they said.) 

But at least one short explanation: for the last 40 years I have been closely involved with an Ayurvedic/yoga community both in Nevada City and San Diego, and their associated ashrams.  Over the years I've been to many, many classes, workshops and week-long retreats... so this has been a long standing part of my life.  Since being back in Rocklin the Nevada City folks have been quite vocal, especially politically.  Whether it's about diet, medicine, the environment, COVID or morals, the list of shoulds and expectations is enormous, and the stridency and self-righteousness have really gotten to me. The list of qualifiers for being 'progressive' is lengthy, and the assumptions about being morally right are locked in.  I thought of some of my new friends out there in the desert, (aka Jeep dude   ) and how abhorrent this must seem to them.  It's helping me understand the chasm that has developed, and the militancy on both sides.  I didn't mean to paint this story in such black/white strokes.  

And on a more non-political note, I just appreciate the welcome mat (so far) in Joshua Tree, beginning to understand the dread my new neighbors feel with every new family who moves in clueless about the environment there, the water (I still don't know if it's ok to turn on my hose but I think it's not)... trashing the fragile land.  The dependence upon tourists, but wishing they would go away. Real dread that Los Angeles climbers and visitors will carelessly bring COVID to Joshua Tree, an underserved community medically.  I'm just learning, that's all.    

I'll pick this back up!

Lori, in my earlier post when I said "you and whose army", Idaho Bob replied with a wild west retort, in good humor.

Wild west, yes, in that small town and rural areas don't have the luxury of waiting for someone else stepping in for a fight. That's the cantankerousness. It isn't vigilantism, it could just be talking to the mayor when you see them at the post office, if you disagree.

There is also not the luxury of waiting for someone else to be kind. People mind their own business....but know everyone else's. And, if it matters, they will show up. Small kindnesses are part of that package.

You are becoming a local. Some day you might be an oldtimer helping that newcomer, once it's clear the newcomer isn't just there to rape and pillage and move on.

Yeah, talk to the neighbors about that hose before you go for a lawn to mow, lol!

My trip to City is on. I'm very, very grateful to have a climbing partner I can do this with, sharing a car ride, even. Those of you who live with your partner? Give em an extra hug, eh? I don't want to live with anyone, I'm relishing every bit of living alone, but it is bizarre now.

Good info on ovals! 70,000 is one heckuva lot of crossloads that didn't happen!! Holy cow! Makes me wonder how many pitches we have, collectively, on this thread? My number is pitifully low, and I have no idea still what it is.

Best, Helen

Hmmmmm.
I wonder what happened to the forum list that was on the front page.
It's not there anymore

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwainwrote: Hmmmmm.
I wonder what happened to the forum list that was on the front page.
It's not there anymore

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119218148/latest-posts-page-and-recent-posts-removed-from-home-page

FrankPSwrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119218148/latest-posts-page-and-recent-posts-removed-from-home-page

ooops.  Sounds like MP forums is on its way out???  If so, where to now, friends?  

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwainwrote: Hmmmmm.
I wonder what happened to the forum list that was on the front page.
It's not there anymore

Dwain & Lori

I saw the same thing and was confused. You need to go to top of page and click Forum, then go to General, click that on and then scroll down the page until you find what you want or do a search.

Another way is to click on Follow Topic  email and notify on site on bottom of New Replay to New...etc page. Then when you go to Mountain Projects you should see that you have a notice and you should also get an email sent to you at some point during the day.

I also read what Nick put up. Hope that we will still be able to work something out in the near future.

Hope that helps.

Oldtradguywrote:

Dwain & Lori

I saw the same thing and was confused. You need to go to top of page and click Forum, then go to General, click that on and then scroll down the page until you find what you want or do a search.

Another way is to click on Follow Topic  email and notify on site on bottom of New Replay to New...etc page. Then when you go to Mountain Projects you should see that you have a notice and you should also get an email sent to you at some point during the day.

I also read what Nick put up. Hope that we will still be able to work something out in the near future.

Hope that helps.

Nick sounded pretty serious.  I don't know what his position is in the scheme of things... but it sounded like the plan was to shut down the forums, or make them purely informational.  If so, what could our backup plan be?  Or would it be time to say goodbye?  

Oldtradguywrote:

Dwain & Lori

I saw the same thing and was confused. You need to go to top of page and click Forum, then go to General, click that on and then scroll down the page until you find what you want or do a search.

Another way is to click on Follow Topic  email and notify on site on bottom of New Replay to New...etc page. Then when you go to Mountain Projects you should see that you have a notice and you should also get an email sent to you at some point during the day.

I also read what Nick put up. Hope that we will still be able to work something out in the near future.

Hope that helps.

I clicked both the follow options. He wants the forums dead, apparently, even with all the acknowledged good they do. I'm guessing he's perhaps preparing to sell and leave it entirely? Tired, at the least.

That thread of Nick's is locked to replies, now. So much for "beyond the guidebook", eh? Free content welcome, but not the contributors themselves?? Sad.

I won't ask to pull what I've contributed to the database side, but I sure won't be very motivated to get pictures on there if the forums are killed. Maybe not routes or areas either. Too bad. Some of it has very little information, otherwise.

Hideously bad timing, too.

H.

#SUPERTOPO2.0

There is the Climbing Forum, Redpoint University
hosted by a long time climber, Ken Gunderson.

Dropped the old guy at the vet this morning, which is curbside only. I don't know if he will come home to my side...or a hole in the backyard.

Old lady Hwrote:

I clicked both the follow options. He wants the forums dead, apparently, even with all the acknowledged good they do. I'm guessing he's perhaps preparing to sell and leave it entirely? Tired, at the least.

Seeing how Nick just bought it back from REI it's strange that he'd be tired and ready to dump it already. I suspect, though, that the forums DO create a lot more headaches and time suck than anyone needs with very little business return. 

Old lady Hwrote: Wild west, yes, in that small town and rural areas don't have the luxury of waiting for someone else stepping in for a fight. That's the cantankerousness. It isn't vigilantism, it could just be talking to the mayor when you see them at the post office, if you disagree.

Best, Helen

The other side of that is when several hundred armed residents turn out to repel a supposed (and highly unlikely) antifa invasion. There is a real and ugly side to rural and small town hostility to outsiders who represent "the other" that's been going on for a long time. E.g., the signs that were common in the dust bowl states (as elsewhere) saying "N_____, don't let the sun go down on you in this county." There's good and bad, in the "wild west" mentality, which includes vigilantism. I wouldn't romanticize it.  

Andrew Ricewrote:

Seeing how Nick just bought it back from REI it's strange that he'd be tired and ready to dump it already. I suspect, though, that the forums DO create a lot more headaches and time suck than anyone needs with very little business return. 

I know from sad experience that administering forums is loathsome and unrewarding. If you just let them run wild with zero admin, the nasty commenters drive out the regular people, and you're left with a bunch of crazies shouting at nothing. If you do some admin work, maybe 1/10 emails you get are appreciative. Most of the messages you get are people complaining about something. And no one wants to pay you for the time you spend.

Does anyone really want to spend their free time trying to decide whether a particular comment needs to be removed? I can understand how Nick might have thought these forums were a good idea as long as it wasn't too much trouble. I bet he's finding it harder to take a hands-off approach, these days, and the trouble is just not remotely worth it. It really wears you down.

wendy weisswrote:

The other side of that is when several hundred armed residents turn out to repel a supposed (and highly unlikely) antifa invasion. There is a real and ugly side to rural and small town hostility to outsiders who represent "the other" that's been going on for a long time. E.g., the signs that were common in the dust bowl states (as elsewhere) saying "N_____, don't let the sun go down on you in this county." There's good and bad, in the "wild west" mentality, which includes vigilantism. I wouldn't romanticize it.  

Hey, that isn't just small town. Idaho has had huge demonstrations, vigils, and protests, in all directions. No matter who or what, it is guaranteed an abundance of firearms are present, quite openly. Someone even fired some shots, recently...and did not get shot or harmed in return. 

And sadly, the tighter the group, the more likely stuff like abuse gets ignored. Actually, that's a prerequisite for it to continue, that complicit silrnce.. There's more than enough ugly to be found out there. But there's also plenty of little day to day nice, too. Easily overlooked by both "sides" once "sides" form up and dehumanise the "other".

Mostly, I simply meant Lori is discovering her home. People. And has had some pleasant surprises. That matters, especially now.

I have to move on, sorry. This is a hard day in a hard time.

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwainwrote: #SUPERTOPO2.0

There is the Climbing Forum, Redpoint University
hosted by a long time climber, Ken Gunderson.

Thanks, Dwain. I signed up there with the same username. Not sure how much I'll use it, but it's an alternate if this one goes away.

Just want to publicly thank Nick for hosting MP for so long. I've enjoyed using it (mostly!).

Old lady Hwrote: I have to move on, sorry. This is a hard day in a hard time.

Did you have to euthanize your cat? I'm sorry to hear that. Been though it and it took over a year for us to be ready to adopt another, which we did just under two weeks ago.  

Andrew Ricewrote:

Seeing how Nick just bought it back from REI it's strange that he'd be tired and ready to dump it already. I suspect, though, that the forums DO create a lot more headaches and time suck than anyone needs with very little business return. 

I am not surprised - he has more in his life than dealing with a lot of vitriol. This place has changed a lot from a few years ago (as a lot of us know). He tried to do the right thing and was raked over the coals for it. 

wendy weisswrote:

Did you have to euthanize your cat? I'm sorry to hear that. Been though it and it took over a year for us to be ready to adopt another, which we did just under two weeks ago.  

Sorry about your kitty Helen.

For those of us on Facebook we can always create our own "New and Experienced".... group there.

dragonswrote:

I know from sad experience that administering forums is loathsome and unrewarding. 

Yeah, me too. And sometimes the more you moderate the worse it gets. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Seeing how Nick just bought it back from REI it's strange that he'd be tired and ready to dump it already. I suspect, though, that the forums DO create a lot more headaches and time suck than anyone needs with very little business return. 

Perhaps the forums are taking up too much server capacity and that might be costly.  I recall that SuperTopo recently deleted a lot of their forum content, I think for the same reason.  Perhaps it's time to think about another communication medium.