You can now flag a discriminatory name

John Qwrote:

MBC is racist trash. Any link from that site is about as credible as infowars.

Seriously. What on Earth is the author going on about?? "Days later, Mountain Project stole her idea and released their own version of her flagging feature without paying Melissa or giving her credit. Melissa took to her social media in protest of the blatant theft of her intellectual property. Let’s be clear. Mountain Project did not design that feature, they stole it from a woman of color"

a.) The MBC article is a vacuum of emotional maturity.  It's a liberal version of a delusional, paranoid, fear mongering Trump speech.  
b.) There's already a "Flag" button for every forum post on MP and just about every other sort of user-contributed content on the Internet you can imagine.  The only way it's "her IP" that she needs licensing/acknowledgement/royalties for is if she has a patent for that sort of feature.  Alas, the USPTO would likely reject that patent application within seconds of opening it due to the prior art of billions of "flag/report content" buttons all over the Internet, you don't need a JD in IP law to know that.
c.) What would she get paid, royalties for every route reported?

As a "gay", I'm offended that the MBC article is lumping me into those harmed by MP.  Where's my "Flag" button to report MBC as offensive and have them removed from the Web, maybe they can license and implement that feature from Melissa!

YOLOLZ Bicarbonatewrote: The ultimate irony of this conversation is that in the 1980s and 1990s these offensive names were meant to offend uptight, square Right-wingers.

Now they offend uptight, square Left-wingers.

This post triggers me.

Jared Williswrote:

They are blog posts. Calling them articles gives them too much credibility. 

Bloggers are the Russian trolls!

Dave K wrote: Religion can be very personal but it ultimately a choice.

Race is not a choice.

See the difference? Let's move on from this overused strawman.

Tell that to the non practicing Jews in Europe during WWll...

Tell that to Ann Frank, damn kid should'a known better...

Dave K wrote:

Lol, you respond to my post from like ten pages ago to play that card?

Been absent for a while. Too much $ to make at work. I was just trying to catch up real quick with the prohj dialogue. Was it ten pages ago? Ha!!! Guess it bored me too soon.  And silly you responds with a quality comeback...  

Fact is, you don't seem to know your world history, let alone religious history.

Just as a bit of history, there was already a method in place to complain about route names.  Users who had issues were E-mailing the admins of the area(s) where they had concerns.  The new "button" just made it easier to make this happen.   Nick is working on a policy to address this issue.  I, for one, am going to be patient and give him time to develop something which is well thought out and will, hopefully, take into account the concerns on all sides of this issue.

Val wrote: This is getting ridiculous... The route names belong to the first ascentionists ... period ... it’s their right since day 1 of this sport. The snowflakes social justice warriors can still name their soy latte, “safe spaces” and their parents lap dogs however they want.
I‘d like to see if anyone has the balls to try changing names of routes put up by the Vulgarians in the Gunks in the 70’s.

oh...., just wait.  somebody already flagged "boston" despite bonnie prudden being one of the FA's.

Dave K wrote:

You're right, I didn't know about The Holocaust before your post. Thanks for educating me.

hmmm, going to have to agree with x15x15 here.  you should have thought a bit more before posting....

Man, it is hilarious watching a bunch of toddler time aggrieved dudes whine about how we should memorialize their fart noise route names. Talk about light duty, lol!

Eric Carloswrote:

If it was just about the message, she would be happy that MP initiated a flagging system.

It's only a part of the way there though. The feature would be more efficient if MP allowed users to check a category (kind of like reporting facebook ads) and offer a description for why a route name is discriminatory or oppressive. Instead, I assume that now moderators will have to look at each reported route themselves, and determine what makes them offensive. 

YOLOLZ Bicarbonatewrote: The ultimate irony of this conversation is that in the 1980s and 1990s these offensive names were meant to offend uptight, square Right-wingers.
Now they offend uptight, square Left-wingers.

The world is round.  If you go far enough around it on one side, you end up on the other.  
There is a point at which left and right meet, if you take it far enough.

Good freekin gawd-- nothing like searching for an issue/hate where there is NONE..   For fukks sake-  route names have nothing to do with "Hate".   It is attributes of the climbers themselves, or their lives or thoughts.. In short THEIR PROPERTY..  WHat this is I is ABSURDITY-- seeking to make issues where there are none.   Routes are not named for the sake of pleasing everybody and they never will please everybody.  They are named to please the first ascensionists and that is the way it should be. They are part of the FREEDOM of our sport.   Piss on those that think different.  

SinRopa wrote:

Well said, although perhaps some of the consternation could have been avoided if more of that had occurred before implementing the flagging option?

True. FWIW, this discussion had begun in the Admin Forums barely two weeks after Nick took over ownership from REI and more than two weeks before Nick had a meeting mentioned in the article that is making the rounds through the climbing community. And at that point, Nick had already been engaging in discussions with external stakeholders about ways to address this issue. The proposal to allow all users to flag route names emerged organically among the admins, amid dozens of pages of discussion and often, heated argument.

Tony Bwrote:

The world is round.  If you go far enough around it on one side, you end up on the other.  
There is a point at which left and right meet, if you take it far enough.

We used to have hand-wringing religious types telling everyone how they should live. Now we have furious keyboard zealots telling everyone how they should live. 

Renaming routes isn't destroying history, it's one small step in giving a voice to every group in the outdoor community. Confederate statues are being torn down and y'all are worried that changing something as simple as a racist/sexist/homophobic route name is really rewriting and destroying a climbing history that nobody outside of climbing really gives a shit about. I'm sure to a lot of first ascentionists, the actual memory of putting up the route and actually climbing it is much more important than the 5 seconds they took to name it. When I've cleaned up a route or put bolts in a rock, it's usually so other people can share the joy of climbing up the same rock I did. Not to piss people off. That's what sandbagging is for. Not the name.

But I guess if you wanna cry about a route name being changed you can go cry into a broken statue of Robert E Lee too. And you guys are so quick to point a finger at the oppressed people of this world and call them snowflakes. Get over yourselves.

Also I'm against changing the poop names so go ahead and judge me too. 

So Tyler, if we remove all that is bad, jump for joy when theos evil statues topple, who will remember the atrocities of the past?  Seems you want to erase history if its ugly. 

Let us stay reminded of our ugly and evil side, move forward and become better. Lets never forget to wear our badge of shame. Label route names, statues, etc that the community feels offensive, discriminatory, ugly, as whatever the community decides. But DON'T change the name or remove the statue.Tell the world you don't approve, support or will even go near that crap, but sanitizing history is a slippery slope.

Ahhhhhh, screw it!!! Let history repeat itself over and over and over and over. Getting close to 8 billion people on this planet. Guess it's time for something BIG to happen...

x15x15wrote: So Tyler, if we remove all that is bad, jump for joy when theos evil statues topple, who will remember the atrocities of the past?  Seems you want to erase history if its ugly. 

Let us stay reminded of our ugly and evil side, move forward and become better. Lets never forget to wear our badge of shame. Label route names, statues, etc that the community feels offensive, discriminatory, ugly, as whatever the community decides. But DON'T change the name or remove the statue.Tell the world you don't approve, support or will even go near that crap, but sanitizing history is a slippery slope.

Ahhhhhh, screw it!!! Let history repeat itself over and over and over and over. Getting close to 8 billion people on this planet. Guess it's time for something BIG to happen...

You can remember atrocities of the past without having a statue or a route name to remind you of it. Maybe you should try reading a book or taking a history class. I got my first history lesson in... Oh lets see, like 1st grade? Your argument is poor.

x15x15wrote: So Tyler, if we remove all that is bad, jump for joy when theos evil statues topple, who will remember the atrocities of the past?  Seems you want to erase history if its ugly. 

Let us stay reminded of our ugly and evil side, move forward and become better. Lets never forget to wear our badge of shame. Label route names, statues, etc that the community feels offensive, discriminatory, ugly, as whatever the community decides. But DON'T change the name or remove the statue.Tell the world you don't approve, support or will even go near that crap, but sanitizing history is a slippery slope.

Ahhhhhh, screw it!!! Let history repeat itself over and over and over and over. Getting close to 8 billion people on this planet. Guess it's time for something BIG to happen...

We could start by actually teaching about these atrocities in schools. Just because the statue is gone doesn't mean we shouldn't learn about it. Just having the statue there without the education is worse, because then people assume it's honoring a heroic person. There are so many atrocities we never learned about in school like the Tulsa massacre, which hardly anyone heard about until this year. How about we put up some monuments to victims to remember the event, rather than statues honoring the perpetrators?

TJ Espositowrote:

Seriously. What on Earth is the author going on about?? "Days later, Mountain Project stole her idea and released their own version of her flagging feature without paying Melissa or giving her credit. Melissa took to her social media in protest of the blatant theft of her intellectual property. Let’s be clear. Mountain Project did not design that feature, they stole it from a woman of color"

a.) The MBC article is a vacuum of emotional maturity.  It's a liberal version of a delusional, paranoid, fear mongering Trump speech.  
b.) There's already a "Flag" button for every forum post on MP and just about every other sort of user-contributed content on the Internet you can imagine.  The only way it's "her IP" that she needs licensing/acknowledgement/royalties for is if she has a patent for that sort of feature.  Alas, the USPTO would likely reject that patent application within seconds of opening it due to the prior art of billions of "flag/report content" buttons all over the Internet, you don't need a JD in IP law to know that.
c.) What would she get paid, royalties for every route reported?

As a "gay", I'm offended that the MBC article is lumping me into those harmed by MP.  Where's my "Flag" button to report MBC as offensive and have them removed from the Web, maybe they can license and implement that feature from Melissa!

+1. 

I read that last night and just shook my head. I'm all for dealing with a bunch of the issues outlined in this thread, but nonsensical (and super whiny) stuff like that MBC link is counterproductive to the discussion because it just gives fodder to people that are dragging their feet about fixing the real issues.

Terrence Gallibier wrote: This is stupid. A route name, by definition, cannot actually be racist/sexist/etc because there is no actual damage to be done by one. Can a name actually hold someone back somehow? Can it prevent you from getting a job, moving ahead in life, or actually sending the route? Absolutely not...so while they may be in poor taste, they're just words and don't actually meet the true definition of discrimination. I wonder how many "racist/sexist" route names are going to be flagged even though they were named by someone of the "offended" population...I personally know a female FA who has already had one of her "sexist" route names flagged...

We are waaaaayyyyy beyond those words meaning what you think they mean. You need to get into critical theory, get behind the idea that every aspect of life is racist and a microaggression towards someone, somewhere and begin to understand your evil, dirty little role in the whole thing.