Why are route names important?

Why is there such a need to take ownership of routes on public lands?  What is the point of a route name? other than to give you info on the route?

Help me understand this.  It seems like climbs used to have names like the west buttress, west crack, center route..  Things that described the route and helped climbers locate it.  From what I can tell people did the route and moved on to the next objective there wasn’t a need to own the route and dictate the future of that route.

Nowadays, it seems like the climbing community has just accepted that the route developer owns the route..  They can name it what they want, offensive or not, bolt it in whatever style they want and no one else's opinion matters even though most of these routes are on public lands.

I mean America had a name before the Europeans arrived here, just like Mt. Mckinley had a name before the Europeans rediscovered it. Why do the route developers names matter so much to the point that they can discriminate against other people?

You joined Mountain Project today to stir the pot? 

To own the libs

FrankPSwrote: You joined Mountain Project today to stir the pot? 

Yes! Well rejoined... MP forums aren’t the best place for minoritys. But feel as though it’s time I get back in the conversation. Any on point answers would be appreciated!

Climber Davewrote: Why is there such a need to take ownership of routes on public lands?  What is the point of a route name? other than to give you info on the route?

Help me understand this.  It seems like climbs used to have names like the west buttress, west crack, center route..  Things that described the route and helped climbers locate it.  From what I can tell people did the route and moved on to the next objective there wasn’t a need to own the route and dictate the future of that route.

Nowadays, it seems like the climbing community has just accepted that the route developer owns the route..  They can name it what they want, offensive or not, bolt it in whatever style they want and no one else's opinion matters even though most of these routes are on public lands.

I mean America had a name before the Europeans arrived here, just like Mt. Mckinley had a name before the Europeans rediscovered it. Why do the route developers names matter so much to the point that they can discriminate against other people?

An alternative is what an acquaintance of mine does when he puts up new routes. He doesn't call them anything. I and another friend joked that we climbed The One with the Bolt, and The One Next to the Bush. We then told him that he should give them names....

1/10.

But to correct some general misinformation among newbies:

You seem to be under the false impression that all routes "existed" before the developer arrived and spent hours/days/weeks/months/years equipping it, cleaning it and climbing it.

This can entail hiking for miles with more ropes and lbs and lbs of hardware and drills plus other safety equipment more akin to big walling than you might think some newly established climb could ever imaginably require over this period of hours/days/weeks etc as the seasons come and go whipping a big project into shape.

Then you can add the expense of all of this plus the equipped hardware which can be quite significant plus the hazards of removing large and dangerous things and hoping you don't get the chop dangling in space exploring places never cleaned up before.

Most, if not virtually all "routes" these days would never exist if a developer was not willing to make this commitment all by themselves with all expenses out of pocket. They require blood, sweat and tears to bring into being, our art, and frankly, noobs like the OP should be charged a fee for drooling on them. They do not exist until we bring them into being for your ungrateful pleasure.

:P

Maybe someday he'll put up a route himself and know how it feels.

A route name is important because it means something to me and that is all you need to know, for now, until you do your own, then you will know more.

Cheers!

Why is your name 'Dave' and not 'Male Human from Colorado'?

Route names can convey a variety of useful information, apart from proprietary.

Take for example, several trad routes, 5.9ish, at a crag on Mt. Lemmon:

Mistaken Identity
Stoner’s Boner
FIUT
Stonedmasters

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105738080/chimney-rock

Historically, the first two (2) lines were confused with one another, hence the names.  (“Boner” meaning error rather than erotic.) These names relate the need to pay attention--- if you have a preference for one route or the other.

The third (FIUT) gave some significant information about location and starting the climb—F/It and Use the Tree.

The fourth (Stonedmasters) conveys that the first acentionist may have utilized herbal inspiration. Couple that with his name and a local will realize that the climb may be a pants filling proposition.

For me route names are fun, they may convey information, they may convey climbing history.

Echoing Scott, I'd say route names are often simply pragmatic. The kinds of naming conventions that reference features/locations are still quite common in alpine climbing (as are naming a route for the first ascentionists when specific features don't really work for a given route). As an example, Yuh-hai-has-kun/Mount Robson in Canada has a "South Face" and a "North Face," which ascend those respective faces. The "Kain Face" is named for Conrad Kain, who guided the first ascent of that face (and the peak). The "Emperor Ridge" and "Emperor Face" are features very near to Emperor Falls and are named accordingly. However, the Emperor Face is a large face that could (and does) house many routes. Most of them are named for the first ascent team (ex. "The Stump-Logan"), though with the increasing number of routes, at least one line is now named by the FA party ("Infinite Patience"). In this case, specific names simply differentiate many lines that are relatively close together and climb the same feature. 

It gets trickier with something like Tu-Tok-A-Nu'-La/El Capitan. The Nose is a prominent feature. The East Buttress is a feature. "The North America Wall" is so named because the rock coloring on the face resembles the continent of North America. Beyond that, it becomes pretty difficult to distinguish routes in any particular section of the wall, so some kind of name is needed. For an ice climb, perhaps the line can be named for it's water course (ex. Horsetail Falls). But what if it's a snow fed line down a random chimney in a rock face and has no summer water course at all? For a boulder, similar issues exist. What separates one bloc from the next, or one set of crimps to the sloping lip mantle from the one beside it?

To address the root of the OP's post (at least as I understand it), I'm not sure that all communities accept that the developer "owns" the route. When climbing had far fewer people in it, a personal sort of adventure or statement or style could be had with potentially little impact on subsequent parties. There was also effectively more rock to go around. By now, most of the low hanging fruit has been picked. Especially in sport climbing, considerable effort might go into development of a line in scouting, cleaning, bolting, etc. Consequently, it's not quite as simple as climbing the line and moving on.

In modern climbing, I personally feel it's pretty egocentric to claim first ascents without consideration of (at least) the local community (in a nationally popular locale, the scope of consideration is necessarily larger). Climbing occurring on public land (or that owned by local climbing organizations especially) belongs to the community. To me this means that regard must be given to ecological impacts, bolt use and placement, bolt type selection, route quality and grade, naming, etc. The action of the first ascentionist(s) affects a potentially large number of people.

Just to address the noob strawman before it's cast about again, I've established/developed sport, trad, ice/mixed, and alpine lines from single pitch to Grade IV. I understand firsthand how much time, effort, and money goes into it. The notion that someone who hasn't personally developed a route doesn't get an opinion about them is just as invalid as the idea that someone who isn't a physician shouldn't get an opinion about healthcare. Certain opinions may be more or differently informed than others, but that does not invalidate them.

I'm proud of most of the lines I've done, but I also don't claim to own them. I fully expect my local community to have some input into them because I hope they actually get climbed. This assumes the line wasn't terrible; in that case, I don't bother naming it or telling anyone. I also don't get upset when someone else comes along with greater tenacity or vision than I, cleans away the choss and retro-bolts a not-so-great loose 5.9R trad pitch that I didn't tell anyone about and turns it into a decent 5.9 sport climb. It's not so much about me as it is the community. If that means using a different name to refer to a line I opened up, so be it. Names and words have real meaning that's often personal and/or emotional. Otherwise folks wouldn't want to change route names in the first place, and importantly, nor would folks be resistant to change names ;)

To the OP: if you have a genuine interest in route development, feel free to PM me. Maybe we can explore some potentially untraveled terrain together sometime and you can pick a name that speaks to you.

I can't say I'm an expert in route development, but I have opened a handful of routes.  The folks who taught me the craft put an emphasis on making sure you are creating something that others enjoy.  I don't really think the names are that important, but as you know many folks disagree.  I understand and have experienced how much work developing a route is and have bared some of the cost associated with developing, (however I don't have a drill, I just borrow) but I can't say I feel particular ownership to the routes.

With that said I wouldn't spend my time challenging people on mp.  You will find that many (not all) users of this site and many climbers care deeply about matters that affect them and climbing. I've found that MP or even the crag isn't a place to try and engage in a serious discussion about what I think you are getting at. Folks won't listen, you will just hear about how what you are saying affects them and how they feel about it. You may get a few genuine responses like the previous response, but most will just be very defensive, sarcastic, and/or demeaning. I find it best to read the forums for the little bits of useful info, but I typically just refrain from engaging.

Good Luck!

It's important as a way to uniquely identify a route. What more do you need? 

Brandon Fieldswrote: Why is your name 'Dave' and not 'Male Human from Colorado'?

Because you assumed his species and gender.

also, He probably moved to Colorado. I would assume he is from California, Seattle or NYC

Brandon Fieldswrote: Why is your name 'Dave' and not 'Male Human from Colorado'?

Also, his(or her) name is Climber, Dave is her(or his) last name/. 

Route names are an art form like song names, book  names and means of self expression (lots of shitty art out there)

To the “end-user” of the route development “product” (i.e. the route), the name is only important insofar as it identifies the route. And even then, it is more important to some people than others.

I have several partners who use me as their “route database/climbing log”. They don’t really care about which route they climb, let alone the name of the route. E.g.: They just want “something in the 5.11- range”, and happy to take my recommendation. They also trust me when I tell them that they had climbed this route two years ago, and hung twice on the first try, sending on the second try.

For them the route names  are completely unimportant, and they wouldn’t be able to name a single route they climbed last weekend.

I personally keep track of routes I climb, and route names are essential part of it. I really enjoy route names that are memorable. And find thematic route names to be particularly fun. E.g. an Infirmary wall in Miller Fork has route names related to various maladies, or vaguely medical-related. There is nothing particularly funny about Ebola, but a route of that name fits very nicely at the Infirmary crag, along with a bunch of others. Similarly, Fruit wall has a lot of “fruit-themed” names, IMO that is pretty cool. But at the end of the day, Witness the Citrus would be a great route, even if you called it “90ft route #27”.

Insert namewrote:

Because you assumed his species and gender.

Pot, meet kettle.

I do not think we should give routes either names or numbers. Instead, our climbing should be a practice of non-grasping, through which we free ourselves from the suffering caused by ignorance. Route names are dharmas, and therefore are marked by emptiness. When we grasp this we are free from suffering. When one is asked where a route is, we show loving kindness to the questioner by doing no more than wordlessly gesturing towards the crag and walking away.

Likewise, when a new climber asks where to find beta, you do him more good by sending him to Mountain-Forecast than to Mountain Project.

Fuck it. Just rename every route cancel culture. Shit I just said fuck!  Fuck I just said shit! What a vicious cycle.  We burn all books that have naughty words in them correct?

The problem with route-renaming is that it's a sliding scale, where everything can be renamed if somebody claims offense as we progress toward ever tighter standards. It doesn't end. We won't be satisfied with the standards in 5 years. We won't be satisfied 10 years from then. There is free speech and then there is tyranny and new-age book burning. I don't agree with renaming anything, regardless of how offensive, racist, or unintelligent it might be.

Not Hobo Greg wrote: Because “Illusion Dweller” or “Lotus Flower Tower” is cooler than “Northwest Ridge Buttress.”

Right! And, Kandy-Kolored Tangerine Flake Streamline Baby is even cooler than Illusion Dweller. But they are both cool. :-)

To the OP: I get a kick out of doing routes with a good or clever name. I'll go out of my way to climb a route if I'm particularly enamoured with its handle. I'm proud when a friend puts a ton of effort into their new route and slaps a memorable name on it. Cherry on top!