New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #9

Guy Keesee wrote: 
The 60’s.... surprisingly nobody!

I wasn't at the party.

One of my climbing partners said to me the other day 'Climbing has changed for me in that it is no longer about climbing HARDER but more about climbing BETTER.'

Amen sister!

 ErikaNW · 1 day ago · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 145Got out for my pre-birthday climb today. We intended to do routes on 3 formations - perhaps a little overly ambitious given the snow, cold (34 deg) and short days.

The approach (still a nice trail, boulder hopping comes later):

The first route is 4 pitches to a nice summit. Jim decided to link the 1st 2 pitches and we weren't sure our 60m would make it. The rope was long enough (just), but he did run out of draws for the P2 bolts.

Who says slabs don't take gear (and chalk bags)?

This is one of my favorite summits - it's a surreal place with the potholes. Wind is always howling and there were ravens flying overhead today.

The 2nd formation in the background - our intended line goes up the middle of the right face. There is a 3rd dome behind that one that is even bigger where we intended to finish the day. Frozen feet and hands, plus not really wanted to scramble down the icy slabs/descent trail in the dark led us to call it quits and head out for an early dinner (and hot soup) instead!

Trying to stay warm in the wind, deciding whether to press on and up or call it a day.

Wow Erika looks cold there good job getting out and not letting the weather get in your way.  

Well sometimes in winter we still get after it .  We had a winter storm warning in the Sierra's.  I will have plenty of those days.

 
So we opted to go East instead of West and got a nice sunny day.

Lori, that toe hook is exactly the kind of stuff that comes in handy as you get on some harder climbs. It's not just using smaller and smaller features. It's also coming up with creative balance and body positioning. Heel hooks, toe hooks, flagging, backsteps...

And for me, "to failure" means the point at which you can't go up any more. Meaning your arms and legs and hands and such are so tired they can't do any more. Falling off is nowhere near failure.

First, happy birthday, Erika! Glad you had such a great time out!

I've not really climbed in ages...until yesterday. My partner and I made it a point to climb the route where Boise's first fatality occured earlier this season. It was a good call. Today, we went to a couple trad routes. He (as seems to happen to many people) is coming back to climbing after a longish while off. We have become great friends, but are still sussing each other out as truly trusted climbing partners. This, it was an honor to belay him on his first gear climb since 2008....and he backed down it. Downclimbed and cleaned while down climbing. We only had my modest rack, not his huge one (impromptu trip) and he simply didn't have what he wanted for it. Made the call and came down.That was impressive.

We hauled our stuff a short walk down the cliff, and got on another one. After that, he went up an unnamed climb, clearly not much done. Then, I top roped....along about three different dihedrals, lol! Definitely off the beaten path! What is it about just...going? Look at it, decide, go up. This is my standard operating procedure, it seems. Yes, I know I can't do this all the time, certainly not on a sport lead, but it's how I tend, even in the gym.

So Lori? I would have been eyeballing a toe hook in that crack, or the other colors of holds, or.....whatever looked like it might ​just go. And be fun.

Maybe I'm a roped high ball boulderer??

My partner wants to go tomorrow. Trad bug bites, itch gotta be scratched, lol! There were teaser snowflakes today. We'll see if they mean business tomorrow, and go anyway, I'm guessing.

EDIT to add, cuz it's encouraging, I asked my doc for a referral to a specialist for my knees, get an assessment, see what the future might be. I asked the person passing the info to the doc to remind her I'm the rock climbing old lady, not the standard issue old lady, and want to stay as active as possible as long as possible. The referral? Next week I'll be going to a sports med institute, located adjacent to the BSU football stadium! Waaahoo!

Best to all, Helen

Lori Milas wrote:

There is the ticking clock issue, for sure.  It’s hard to know how to deal with an expiration date coming like a freight train.  One theory is to go all out... leave nothing on the table.  

Today I was told “Lori if you’re not willing to try to failure you’ll never know what you’re capable of. Trust your body. Trust your feet.”  Really PERFECT words for me today.

So I tried climbing a 10d route using a toehold at the crux.  Awkward and strange... but really fun.  Ryan then demonstrated it for me... his was beautiful.  “Failure” means a lot of things... not just falling off a route but looking uncoordinated, dorky. I will practice this at home before trying it again.  
But yes, with climbing in general time is short. This is not the time to hold back.   
PS. A minor point but when would you EVER use this move on rock? 

 

Lori,

To get a sense of the ratings at your gym, what are the purple and white routes rated? Purple looks like 5.11something? on the little sign but can't fully read it in the photo? White looks maybe a touch harder?

...and that wall is just less than vertical?

Mark Orsag wrote: ...and that wall is just less than vertical?

The purple is 5.11c.  The wall is just less than vertical. I don’t recall what the white route is rated but next time I go I’ll check it out.  What I’m discovering is that the “style” of route matters almost as much as the rating. I fell off a very overhung 10b, but waltzed up 2 slabby 11a’s.   

Señor Arroz wrote: Lori, that toe hook is exactly the kind of stuff that comes in handy as you get on some harder climbs. It's not just using smaller and smaller features. It's also coming up with creative balance and body positioning. Heel hooks, toe hooks, flagging, backsteps...

And for me, "to failure" means the point at which you can't go up any more. Meaning your arms and legs and hands and such are so tired they can't do any more. Falling off is nowhere near failure.

Ok. I’ll make it my mission to find a route that calls for a toe hook on my upcoming Josh trip.    

As with nearly everything in climbing it only takes a few well-chosen words at the right moment to wake me up and change my course.  Many of those words have come from you, Senor!  (Ty) 
In this case Ryan was observing that I’m tentative and still afraid to fail.  He reminded me that I’m on a top rope and cannot fall.  It’s ok to try stuff... it’s ok to think outside the box.  Until he mentioned it I didn’t realize that I’m still playing it so safe. 
Yesterday on my own I played with climbing with only one foot on the wall at a time.  It took some time to work out flagging and balance when one foot is not on a hold... a lot more physical work and effort but SO MUCH FUN. The whole day was fun. 
When I play chess I keep my finger on the piece until I have exhausted all options—which makes me a lousy partner. Climbing is forcing new calibrations of safety, speed and courage.  But we all knew this is the endeavor we’ve chosen to smash the past, our preconceived limits...   become new beings. 

Old lady H wrote: First, happy birthday, Erika! Glad you had such a great time out!

EDIT to add, cuz it's encouraging, I asked my doc for a referral to a specialist for my knees, get an assessment, see what the future might be. I asked the person passing the info to the doc to remind her I'm the rock climbing old lady, not the standard issue old lady, and want to stay as active as possible as long as possible. The referral? Next week I'll be going to a sports med institute, located adjacent to the BSU football stadium! Waaahoo!

Best to all, Helen

Helen I remember those xrays!  Has something changed for better or worse?  How are your knees feeling?

Kaiser has a Sports Endurance Lab and my doctor is a sport medicine doc.  A few years ago I would have laughed at the very idea of me, a non-athlete, seeking out all the accouterments of young spry athletes.  But in fact my doc loves it... does not laugh, and does not patronize.  He strategizes With me and is happy to offer up his considerable expertise.  So grab the gusto... take everything they have to offer and report back to us, ok?
As an aside... being in the medical industry ... I see ageism in so many subtle ways.  Doctors make assumptions based on how you present... so walking in tan, healthy and with a smile gets a whole different kind of treatment than feeble and depressed.  It’s just human nature but also a little frightening. 

Thanks, Lori! True for me too on style issue.

Not to beat this toe-hook thing to death but... it brings questions to mind.  One is... WHY wouldn't I have thought of it myself?  My answer is because I'm accustomed to "rules' and not learning to think independently.  

Rgold and some others were having some lengthy discussions on whether sport and gym climbing could prepare a climber for trad climbing. (I think that was the gist). Climbing so often in the gym gets you sort of used to thinking that climbing is all about 'beta' and rules: stay on only the pink holds, the arete is in, the crack is out, etc.  But on real rock, there are no rules, except ones of safety.  

So, this gym training doesn't really teach problem solving outside the box.  In fact, it causes you to believe that there is a certain way (beta) to accomplish a route.  

I'm trying to recall what Ryan told me yesterday... something about 'breaking beta' when I devised my own way up a route.  He said "The way you did it is not bad, but it isn't what the setters meant for you to do."  What?  

Breaking beta reminds me of a puzzle that I first saw years ago. Nine dots arranged in a square:   .          .         .

                                                                                                                                                                              .          .         .

                                                                                                                                                                              .          .         .  

The goal is to connect them with 4 straight lines without lifting your pencil. And, yes, I do it pretty often to make up for my lack of reach.      

wendy weiss wrote: Breaking beta reminds me of a puzzle that I first saw years ago. Nine dots arranged in a square:   .          .         .

                                                                                                                                                                              .          .         .

                                                                                                                                                                              .          .         .  

The goal is to connect them with 4 straight lines without lifting your pencil. And, yes, I do it pretty often to make up for my lack of reach.      

Oddly, even as visual as I am, I'm terrible at this type of puzzle. I think it's a logic thing, lol!

I do, however, break beta all the time. I even used to set routes that could be climbed several different ways, when the opportunity to do so came up (usually a corner).

Lori, one of my gym "games" is to climb smoothly, but as quickly as I can, using anything on the wall, on top rope or autobelay. No dithering or second guessing allowed. Just decide, and do. I also attempt walls I'm not "capable" of climbing, like your 10, 11, and up combo. Again, using what I can make of it. Some walls, I climb the hardest holds I can, for say, hands, and allow the better feet, or vice versa. Sometimes, I climb with only left hip in, or, making all the push moves on the weaker left leg. I make "high" steps when I don't have to....to push the recalcitrant body parts along. If I have one really solid hand, and the second handhold up higher will be good, I use the whole front side of my lower leg to shove against the wall to leverage up, or any/all body parts that might work. This, is a big advantage of top rope. You can try anything you want, within a few limits. You still have to be aware of how a fall will go, a pendulum on top rope is still a pendulum. Outside, of course, it's much more serious. 

I'll try anything. For me, it's the workaround for not only height, but the leg strength not being there when you really want it. Rarely is a step up climbing anything like a step up some stairs. I quite often have to get way off balance to bend enough to get feet up. Which means I also need a solid hand....somewhere.

So? Other than be safe and have fun? There are no real rules. Lori, the way people came up with all of this stuff in the first place, is by getting bored, grabbing a buddy (or not) and simply messing around. Because it's fun and challenging. It's the epitome of pointless, inventing ways to make a trip across or to the top of an eight foot tall rock you can walk up the backside of harder, but stupid fun, nonetheless. That's where those fun, fun moves come in.

Yes, follow the rules. But remember, we ancients break all the rules by doing this at all, eh? Don't tie your own hobbles, Lori. Or at least choose what is actually meaningful to you. This is a pretty huge gift climbing gave me, and an entirely rewritten life because of it.

Best, Helen

Has anyone climbed this route? Odds and Sods. (EDIT: This is not me. This is a wannabe climb that looks really fun.)

Lori, it's not a gym vs. rock thing at all. I think you've seen my daughter climb at the gym, no? Advanced climbers aren't going up the wall like a person climbing a ladder. They're going up like spider, using any and all options available to make the impossible possible. 

Is anyone up for another story?

frank minunni wrote: Is anyone up for another story?

Always, Frank.

frank minunni wrote: Is anyone up for another story?

Yes!  Please!

Lori Milas wrote:

Ok. I’ll make it my mission to find a route that calls for a toe hook on my upcoming Josh trip.    

As with nearly everything in climbing it only takes a few well-chosen words at the right moment to wake me up and change my course.  Many of those words have come from you, Senor!  (Ty) 

Lori

You may want to try Event Horizon at Jtree. The crux is near the top of the climb. I smeared the arete and maybe used a toe hold on it.

John