Backcountry.com not playing nice

Brad Nyenhuis wrote:

For now.

I'm sure Backcountrygear.com is in their crosshairs

I wonder if Backcountrygear.com ever sued small companies for using the word "backcountry"?  I doubt it.

Briggs Lazalde wrote: Does anyone in Bellingham know if the independent retailer 'Backcountry Essentials" has been affected by all this nonsense? That is one of my favorite little outdoor/climbing retailers and if they are affected by the trademark ima lose my shit.

Check the 3 page list way upthread. Probably...our little used gear store got hit early on, just after they added a modest retail part to the store. Was Backcountry Pursuit, now Boise Gear Collective. I'm their sponsored athlete, except the cash flow goes the other direction. ;-)

And guys? The damage to the little places is already done. Name changes aren't what you want, ever, and now that all the money's been spent for signs and everything else? I doubt any will go back.

Best, Helen

Here's a list of the 5 IP infringement cases backcountry.com is pursuing this year and cliff note summaries -

• Backcountry Babes (outdoor women's education courses) - backcountry.com never formally filed for them to cancel the trademark. The parties appear to have come to an agreement and Backcountry Babes still retains their trademark
• LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF BACKCOUNTRY (clothing company) - lost their trademark to backcountry.com
• Backcountry Discovery Routes (motorbike GPS maps) - they tried to trademark just the backcountry part of their name. Currently pending trademark cancellation
• STOIK'D (sleepingpads product name) - pending trademark cancellation. Looks like a copycat of backcountry.com's Stoic brand
• Outervention (counseling company) - pending trademark cancellation. Backcountry registered this name for use in their durable goods branding, similar to Stoic. They're using it for marketing that you've been working too many hours and need an 'outervention'

No where on this list do I see small mom and pop shops being forced to change their names by backcountry.com, even going back to 2016. What I do see are a few copycats trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image. If backcountry.com doesn't defend their trademark, they could lose it and would be forced to change their name and website address. Just like every other entity that wishes to have protection for their brand names, this is a normal business practice.

Edit: Backcountry Pursuit applied for a trademark in 2017 and it was denied because backcountry.com already had the name. Not surprising.

Steve G wrote: Here's a list of the 5 IP infringement cases backcountry.com is pursuing this year and cliff note summaries -

• Backcountry Babes (outdoor women's education courses) - backcountry.com never formally filed for them to cancel the trademark. The parties appear to have come to an agreement and Backcountry Babes still retains their trademark
• LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF BACKCOUNTRY (clothing company) - lost their trademark to backcountry.com
• Backcountry Discovery Routes (motorbike GPS maps) - they tried to trademark just the backcountry part of their name. Currently pending trademark cancellation
• STOIK'D (sleepingpads product name) - pending trademark cancellation. Looks like a copycat of backcountry.com's Stoic brand
• Outervention (counseling company) - pending trademark cancellation. Backcountry registered this name for use in their durable goods branding, similar to Stoic. They're using it for marketing that you've been working too many hours and need an 'outervention'

No where on this list do I see small mom and pop shops being forced to change their names by backcountry.com, even going back to 2016. What I do see are a few copycats trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image. If backcountry.com doesn't defend their trademark, they could lose it and would be forced to change their name and website address. Just like every other entity that wishes to have protection for their brand names, this is a normal business practice.

Edit: Backcountry Pursuit applied for a trademark in 2017 and it was denied because backcountry.com already had the name. Not surprising.

Uh, yeah, for sure. Because a non-profit helping struggling adolescent girls and their families is surely a threat to The Goat.

Outervention

Steve G wrote:

• Outervention (counseling company) - pending trademark cancellation. Backcountry registered this name for use in their durable goods branding, similar to Stoic. They're using it for marketing that you've been working too many hours and need an 'outervention'

No where on this list do I see small mom and pop shops being forced to change their names by backcountry.com, even going back to 2016. What I do see are a few copycats trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image. If backcountry.com doesn't defend their trademark, they could lose it and would be forced to change their name and website address. Just like every other entity that wishes to have protection for their brand names, this is a normal business practice.

Targeting a non profit who’s goal is to help struggling teen girls by getting them introduced into the outdoor lifestyle is stooping so goddamn low. Just so they can have a line of durable goods?  Find another name... When you say pending trademark cancellation do you mean by backcountry or the non profit?

Steve G wrote: Here's a list of the 5 IP infringement cases backcountry.com is pursuing this year and cliff note summaries -

• Backcountry Babes (outdoor women's education courses) - backcountry.com never formally filed for them to cancel the trademark. The parties appear to have come to an agreement and Backcountry Babes still retains their trademark
• LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF BACKCOUNTRY (clothing company) - lost their trademark to backcountry.com
• Backcountry Discovery Routes (motorbike GPS maps) - they tried to trademark just the backcountry part of their name. Currently pending trademark cancellation
• STOIK'D (sleepingpads product name) - pending trademark cancellation. Looks like a copycat of backcountry.com's Stoic brand
• Outervention (counseling company) - pending trademark cancellation. Backcountry registered this name for use in their durable goods branding, similar to Stoic. They're using it for marketing that you've been working too many hours and need an 'outervention'

No where on this list do I see small mom and pop shops being forced to change their names by backcountry.com, even going back to 2016. What I do see are a few copycats trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image. If backcountry.com doesn't defend their trademark, they could lose it and would be forced to change their name and website address. Just like every other entity that wishes to have protection for their brand names, this is a normal business practice.

Edit: Backcountry Pursuit applied for a trademark in 2017 and it was denied because backcountry.com already had the name. Not surprising.

Re your Edit, Backcountry Pursuit was in business years before that, with everything about their name and logo quite distinct from Backcountry.com except the use of the word "Backcountry".  This is the crux of what people on here are objecting to, the mere use of the word "backcountry", which is a normal, everyday use word by the general public. That, is hard to swallow as being intellectual property or somehow impinging on Backcountry.com's business. It may be the letter of the law, but it's horribly bad PR.

Best, Helen

Owen Christian wrote: The CEO’s email address is jnielsen@backcountry.com. I sent him a nice email. Anyone else wanna do the same?

Done, thank you!

Señor Arroz wrote:

Uh, yeah, for sure. Because a non-profit helping struggling adolescent girls and their families is surely a threat to The Goat.

Outervention

I'm not saying I agree with all of their IP infringement suits. Someone needs to play devil's advocate in a forum where most people here jump to boycott without understanding the basics of IP protection and/or doing a little research.

Dan Knisell wrote:

When you say pending trademark cancellation do you mean by backcountry or the non profit?

Meaning the non profit's trademark is pending potential cancellation.

Steve G wrote:

I'm not saying I agree with all of their IP infringement suits. Someone needs to play devil's advocate in a forum where most people here jump to boycott without understanding the basics of IP protection and/or doing a little research.

Did you read the entire thread? It went into pretty clear depth about what IS and what IS NOT reasonable in IP protection. 

Steve G wrote: What I do see are a few copycats trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image. If backcountry.com doesn't defend their trademark, they could lose it and would be forced to change their name and website address. Just like every other entity that wishes to have protection for their brand names, this is a normal business practice.

That's not quite what's going on.

For a good explanation, see http://www.agnarchy.com/backcountry-com-is-suing-the-inventor-of-the-marquette-backcountry-ski/. Here's a summary (disclaimer: I'm not an attorney).

• Currently, Backcountry.com owns a trademark to the word "Backcountry", but only for retail services. So if you tried to open an on-line store called "Bakckountry.com", say, they'd have a strong case against you.

• Backcountry.com is now expanding into sales of Backcountry-branded clothing and outdoor equipment. Their existing trademark doesn't extend to this usage, so in 2018 they applied for an additional trademark covering a wide range of outdoor goods.

• The US Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO) rejected that application on the grounds that "backcountry" is a generic, descriptive term. USPTO also mentioned the likelihood of confusion with an existing trademark held by Snapperhead Inventions for the Marquette Backcountry Ski.

• Backcountry.com then applied to USPTO to cancel Snapperhead's trademark. USPTO rejected that application.

• Backcountry.com has now filed civil suit in California in an attempt to force Snapperhead to give up their trademark.

This hardly seems to be a case of Snapperhead "trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image".

Old lady H wrote:

This is the crux of what people on here are objecting to, the mere use of the word "backcountry", which is a normal, everyday use word by the general public.

This makes me wonder if Nike has tried to copyright the word “Air”.

Nike does have a copyright on “Just do it”.  Somebody should create justdoitinthebackcountry.com to see how that goes.

Martin le Roux wrote:

That's not quite what's going on.

For a good explanation, see http://www.agnarchy.com/backcountry-com-is-suing-the-inventor-of-the-marquette-backcountry-ski/. Here's a summary (disclaimer: I'm not an attorney).

• Currently, Backcountry.com owns a trademark to the word "Backcountry", but only for retail services. So if you tried to open an on-line store called "Bakckountry.com", say, they'd have a strong case against you.

• Backcountry.com is now expanding into sales of Backcountry-branded clothing and outdoor equipment. Their existing trademark doesn't extend to this usage, so in 2018 they applied for an additional trademark covering a wide range of outdoor goods.

• The US Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO) rejected that application on the grounds that "backcountry" is a generic, descriptive term. USPTO also mentioned the likelihood of confusion with an existing trademark held by Snapperhead Inventions for the Marquette Backcountry Ski.

• Backcountry.com then applied to USPTO to cancel Snapperhead's trademark. USPTO rejected that application.

• Backcountry.com has now filed civil suit in California in an attempt to force Snapperhead to give up their trademark.

This hardly seems to be a case of Snapperhead "trying to trademark the word Backcountry and steal the mountain goat image".

Thank you for posting this!

I'm not trying to defend all of backcountry.com's IP litigation. I did review each case they've opened since 2016 and saw backcountry.com primarily defending their trademarked name and their goat image. I generically categorized most of what they are doing as typical IP protection. This appears to be another outlier.

My thoughts were based on an hour of research and reading 9 pages of "boycott backcountry" that seem a bit overboard. I'm trying to help develop a more meaningful conversation. It's hard to do that when this conversation is so one-sided.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Did you read the entire thread? It went into pretty clear depth about what IS and what IS NOT reasonable in IP protection. 

Yes, I've read the entire thread. 90% of this thread is people jumping on a bandwagon to boycott backcountry.com. Yes, I agree that there are a handful of insensitive IP protection lawsuits this company is making that I do not personally agree with. I assume this occurs with the majority of our purchasing decisions without us even realizing. 

This thread is occurring because someone put a spotlight on backcountry.com. It could have just as easily been another brand or company.

Steve G wrote:

Yes, I've read the entire thread. 90% of this thread is people jumping on a bandwagon to boycott backcountry.com. Yes, I agree that there are a handful of insensitive IP protection lawsuits this company is making that I do not personally agree with. I assume this occurs with the majority of our purchasing decisions without us even realizing. 

This thread is occurring because someone put a spotlight on backcountry.com. It could have just as easily been another brand or company.

Glad to see someone else trying to post up the real world of IP. Unsurprisingly there are lots of knee-jerk reactions without doing some real research to first educate themselves. Well perhaps not so unsurprisingly ...

Allen Sanderson wrote:

Glad to see someone else trying to post up the real world of IP. Unsurprisingly there are lots of knee-jerk reactions without doing some real research to first educate themselves. Well perhaps not so unsurprisingly ...

Well, I think people get the legality of it, and, maybe, it's even reasonable to go after anything that mimics your brand. It's the eyeroll of it being "backcountry", I think, that gets people.

For me? It is, after all, a name change for the other companies. Far as I know, no one is being forced out of business. The damage is done, for those who had to change their name, and I'm skeptical Mountain Project is going to provoke any response at all from Backcountry, or that any of this will help those little businesses in any way.

I don't buy very much online. When I do, I usually buy direct. If at all possible, I have my little local gear shop order it in for me. Is Backcountry your only source for thousands of dollars of...whatever? Or are you yanking your business from someone you used because you liked the price and service? If you put your money with your local store in the first place, it wouldn't matter what their name is or what Backcountry is doing. "Backcountry" may have been part of the name on my gear shops storefront, but I'm making my purchases from guys I know by name. Crap, I even know most all the dogs' names too! 

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

Well, I think people get the legality of it, and, maybe, it's even reasonable to go after anything that mimics your brand. It's the eyeroll of it being "backcountry", I think, that gets people.

Love how you put it Helen! The eyeroll of it being ‘backcountry’ lol.

If Allen & Steve think people are having a knee-jerk reaction instead of a full understanding of IP law- maybe, but laws are created to codify what is just and fair, and it’s pretty easy to spot how Backcountry.com isn’t playing fair. Legally maybe, but morally no. Their reaction is actually codified by the other major IP branch, patent law. In Patent law, if the public has known about some invention or it has been in use, even if no one else has a patent on it, no one else can patent it because allowing that would be taking something away from the public. Imagine if someone patented the wheel and prohibited all others from using a wheel!

• In the same vein, backcountry.com who was kindly allowed by the public to use this favored term describing adventure in the great outdoors for their business is now trying to monopolize the name for themselves to the exclusion of all others,  away from the public who had created it and used it since the 1700s to describe gear/classes/adventuring in that environment. 

As others mentioned, in Trademark law the mark must be associated and contunuously used with goods in commerce. Unfortunately even though Trademarks aren’t required to be registered, federally registering it gives the holder a lot more power to steamroll over those small local businesses who have used it even before backcountry.com existed, who now need all sorts of proof of continuous use, and area/reach instead of an automatic nationwide presumption.

• Back to kneejerk reactions, it feels like introducing some seemingly good guys to a climbing area enjoyed by the locals for years, only to have them claim it for themselves and their benefit only, charging all other entrants a fee. Because for some reason until now, as big as backcountry.com got, they were seen as an ally in adventuring unlike the “big” profit hungry faceless corporations. I myself spent thousands a year with backcountry.com but haven’t in the past year and won’t be doing so anymore.  And yes my continual use of calling them backcountry.com instead of simply ‘backcountry’ is a conscious one. 
  
  

Another article this morning - it looks like plenty of small companies have been targeted and threatened. The ones that cave because they know they can’t possibly fight an expensive battle probably don’t show up in the filings?

https://coloradosun.com/2019/11/05/backcountry-com-trademark-lawsuits-boycotts-backlash/?utm_source=Pico&utm_campaign=2ed52aaf5c-Sun-Up&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2e5f9a0f1b-2ed52aaf5c-66418305&mc_cid=2ed52aaf5c&mc_eid=219fd4df4e

Call Backcountry dot com's gear head line to voice your opposition to this.

800-409-4502

You can also permanently block them on social medium.  I imagine that’s a hard statistic they receive/review.

Added bonus of not being tempted back by 20% off offers....