New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #7

"A period of intense play."  I see a counselor (son, mom, fiance etc.)... and she finally announced "What you are craving is an extended period of intense play."  BINGO.      

I don't know why I waited for her to say it.  But once I get the concept, I can make it happen.  So... I'm aware that playtime might not go on forever, but I can create a space for extended play this year. I'm receiving nasty phone calls from clients of mine, employees who are looking at me with grave concern, kids and grandkids getting a bit uncomfortable... but I think i can go climb my heart out, until I'm done.  Helen posted a picture some thousands of posts ago, wiped out and weary from some period of climbing and I thought, yea, that's it.   

Does anyone ever get "done"?  So far, I thought that just creating longer trips (two weeks instead of one) would finally wear me out and allow me to return to my 'real life'.  I have not yet hit a time when I thought I'm finished here, and now I want to go home and have a hot shower.  I always leave with tears in my eyes.  

That teenage time of frolic, wanderlust, adventure... seems possible once again.  Years of minding my post are over, for now.  (Helen?)

With a modicum of health and enthusiasm, a second adolescence may be possible.  I don't want to bank on the hope that it will still be here at a more reasonable retirement age.  "Get it while you can..."

Anyone else doing likewise?

EDIT: Can I just add this here?  Maybe part of the urgency is just looking around at my friends, co-workers... really nearly everyone over 60, who can no longer physically play and who are gently going into that good night.  The litany of hospital, medical, emotional procedures and breakdowns have reduced many of my friends to being observers, and some miserable observers at that.   It'll be here soon enough for the rest of us, but right now... let's romp.

Carl Schneider wrote: Got a new climbing hat.  It's cold here at the moment. Don't my eyes look lovely?

Carl, I think you are very lovely. Here's my glamour shot (Lori, this might be what you remember):

That was at the end of my first try at top rope solo, on a windy day! That one crucial piece of gear that got left in the car...

Lori? I am packing today, for a four day climbing trip, 3.5 hour drive from here, to City of Rocks. I am pretty sure I will be going again at the end of the month, and will be going whenever Jean and John can get here in September. So, not long trips, but often, for me. A concession to the three remaining kitties.

I don't miss work at all. I don't miss Dave at all (kinda special circumstances). I don't even think about it, my life pre March 1. Except, to be very, very, grateful, both for the life I have now, and those few people out there who got me through the earlier shit. And, the man Dave was....before it got ugly.

I have no desire to be 19 again, although I wouldn't mind being about fifty, lol! Because I moved in with Dave when I was only 19, that age is sorta permanently "stuck", and is definitely part of the person who is greatly enjoying having her own ​life, finally, so many decades later.

To revive the comments rgold made awhile back, no, we all know better than to just jettison everything in our lives, wholesale, that's the classic middle age blunder.

I merely jettisoned parts of it, when it abruptly changed, wholesale, on its own.

With zero downside for myself, or anyone else, including Dave.

Good luck, Lori. It's your own unique situation you need to ponder. Decide what needs to change, and do it.

Or, wait most of a lifetime, muddle along, and hope for the best, lol! I was such a scaredy cat, so unsure of myself, at 19. Duh. Too bad that climber badass wasn't discovered way back when!

So now? I am even enjoying the mundane pleasure of running a household. On my own. Figuring that out, for the first time, in many ways. What should a home, and a life, be?

Gotta go pack! And no, I didn't get the back lawn mowed, only the front.

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

So now? I am even enjoying the mundane pleasure of running a household. On my own. Figuring that out, for the first time, in many ways. What should a home, and a life, be?

Gotta go pack! And no, I didn't get the back lawn mowed, only the front.

Best, Helen

Yea, that's the pic Helen.  
And... only because this is a forum of discussion for 'climbers over 50'  by necessity that includes what it means to fit that all in to a life of work, responsibilities, etc.
We're all trying to find our way in this new time zone.  I just wanna go play, hard... for a good long while.  I have NO IDEA how long that really is, in real time.  (a week, a year?) So many others played all along the way, it might not feel so urgent to pack it all in now.    

Glad you are enjoying this time of your life, Helen... and all the new things it is bringing to you.  "Maybe it's time to let the old ways die..." is a song I've been humming this week.  

Old lady H wrote:

...Carl, I think you are very lovely. Here's my glamour shot (Lori, this might be what you remember):

...

Ha ha that's great! I'm slowly getting back in to shape after my injury, building some strength, getting smarted at doing moves instead of relying on my manly strength   

Here's my little gym setup at home. And my spreadsheet tells me I have 64.7 days until my trip.

On a sadder note, the South Australian climbing community suffered a loss a few days ago, with two climbers killed at Moonarie while climbing.  So sad, and such a wake up call.  

It is a sad day for climbers everywhere when one of us dies climbing.

Why a wake up call?

So... it's mid-August.  Has anyone made plans for the upcoming Fall season?  Who's climbing?  

I've embraced my inner Sierra-climber... but this only goes so far.  In one season I've seen very little.  It's not like hunkering down in one place, and climbing every day until you drop.  But it is beautiful, and an entirely different experience from the desert.  

It's been several thousand posts since I mentioned bone soup/broth.  Since we are all 'old'   is it ok if I mention it again?  

On Monday, after another strenuous day of gym climbing, I finally called it quits on my shoulder.  The pain was so intense when I got home, and all night long... I figured, I've wrecked it for good.  But I cooked up a big batch of oxtail soup with femur bones (I know...!) and had it for lunch and dinner.  Maybe it's placebo, I don't know.  All pain is gone.  Range of motion is back.  There is Kettle and Fire broth, which you can order from Amazon.  Or just cook up a bunch of bones. (John would love this... probably use something feral.)  I would post a picture of what's on my stove now... but it would probably gross some people out.  But keep in mind that we DO need all the nutrients that support tendons, bones, ligaments... of which is plentiful in bone broth. 

I saw my doctor yesterday, who happens to also be a Sports Medicine doc.  He gave me some links for home rehab of my shoulder... but honestly, he said it all looks good and pretty well recovered.  He sent me links to a series of exercises for shoulder... starting with this. youtube.com/watch?v=SD_gdyS… .   Feeling much better now.

Lori Milas wrote: On Monday, after another strenuous day of gym climbing, I finally called it quits on my shoulder.  The pain was so intense when I got home, and all night long... I figured, I've wrecked it for good.  But I cooked up a big batch of oxtail soup with femur bones (I know...!) and had it for lunch and dinner.  Maybe it's placebo, I don't know.  All pain is gone.  Range of motion is back.

Hey Lori, Glad to hear your shoulder problem is better! Basically sounds like a miracle to me   What's your recipe for bone broth - anything special? How long do you cook it for?

My current favorite for bone broths are 1) from the local farmer's market, if it's available and 2) https://www.barebonesbroth.com/ - I find their broth less acidic and tastier than Kettle & Fire. I still use Kettle & Fire. Bare Bones is kind of weird though. It actually gels up after you open it and refrigerate it. I thought there was something wrong with it at first, but no, it was fine.

I don't have any trips planned for the fall or the near future. My back is feeling better, but it's not 100%, and I wonder if it ever will be. It doesn't make sense to take a big trip with my back kind of iffy. However, there's a 5.7 at Cathedral that has my name on it. I hope to get at it this year. I've followed it before, but it's been a while.

Lori,

Won’t be able to make it to the Black Hills in September as planned as I have to help out with a family health crisis back in Pennsylvania. Next outdoor trip or trips will be to Horseshoe Canyon Ranch in October and I hope again in November. Routes, “with my name on it” as Dragons says, are some slab climbs and vertical crimpfests in the 5.10b to 5.11b range. Going to also try to climb a couple more overhanging dynamic climbs in the 5.9 to 5.10a range— we’ll see...

dragons wrote:

Hey Lori, Glad to hear your shoulder problem is better! Basically sounds like a miracle to me   What's your recipe for bone broth - anything special? How long do you cook it for?

My current favorite for bone broths are 1) from the local farmer's market, if it's available and 2) https://www.barebonesbroth.com/ - I find their broth less acidic and tastier than Kettle & Fire. I still use Kettle & Fire. Bare Bones is kind of weird though. It actually gels up after you open it and refrigerate it. I thought there was something wrong with it at first, but no, it was fine.

I don't have any trips planned for the fall or the near future. My back is feeling better, but it's not 100%, and I wonder if it ever will be. It doesn't make sense to take a big trip with my back kind of iffy. However, there's a 5.7 at Cathedral that has my name on it. I hope to get at it this year. I've followed it before, but it's been a while.

Hey dragons!  Somewhere some hundreds of posts back you related what happened to your back.  I'm not sure I remember, except you thought it was debilitating and very long recovery.  Share again, if you feel like it.

Of great interest to me in this 'climbers over 50" thread is the whole subject of health and fitness in senior years.  I think it bores everyone, except those few for whom getting fit has become a new career. Maybe diabetes has made me more conscious of my own frailty.  But my observation is that, in the absence of proactive and committed lifestyle and diet changes, decline/decrepitude is inevitable.  But WITH the commitment to health, it's still possible to be really strong and healthy.    I had lunch yesterday with some family members, all over 50, who now suffer every malady under the sun--but freely admit they live sedentary lives and eat garbage.  I mean, this is what I see EVERYWHERE.  

So, when it comes to climbing... as 'elders'... I'm grateful for every bit of information on diet, exercise, injury prevention.  My doc is finally on board with 'Let's see what's possible."  Tweeking diet, warm ups and cool downs, and adding in some supplements... and bone broth!  One thing that has changed with aging, we need full-fat... we need heavier diets (most of us)... to remineralize (still trying to figure out iodine)... some of us need iron even though the general aging population doesn't.  There's a new cookbook for elder-health, that we are creating along the way.  

With this batch of bone broth I'll be removing all the meat and gunk, and using the strained soup to make a regular beef stew.  

Seems a little late to be asking this question--I want to go back and re-read rgold's article on how to get asked on a second date.  But I'm also trying to learn the basics of being a decent partner  in the most basic ways.  Such as:  I get a little overwhelmed trying to have my backpack ready at the appointed time.  I still don't know what I should pack for a day out at the crags--rack, ropes, shoes, helmet...  I'm still fussing at 9 a.m.,  when whoever is tapping their foot, waiting for me to get my shit together.  Trying very hard to be ON TIME and ready to roll.  

I don't know how to add all the food and water and stuff I need... it gets heavy.  Even when we are climbing close to the car, most people want to stay out for the day, and not make a return trip for more food and water.  I'm looking for a satchel, or tiny cooler... that won't add yet more weight.

This is the one thing I have truly missed when I have had a guide take me out.  I REALLY want to be a partner, not pampered.  

                                                                                                                        Greatest Pet of all time
We rescued a Parrot named Brady; a real piece of work. Fully 'socialized' new its way around a deck of cards; what was high & low.  Could even tell Jacks from Kings or Queens,   A clear voice as birds go had a great vocabulary knew all the swear words... loved to be included. Playing cards after climbing, this bird was full of tricks,  he liked to 'cheat'  & wasn't all that good at it, kept getting caught too.  Would fly from shoulder to shoulder then back to anyone at random and would tell what cards he'd seen in a hand. "Bryanz got Aces `n Queenz", "Sheri zz Flusin"(Amazing!!), "Nate haz2 pair hi clubz" -all this while missing that the blond hair wasn't the hair nor the shoulder of one of us "friendlies" then in a squawk fly back to one or another of us  saying that "Friendlies" & laughing.
 
 He also had this laugh, he loved to make people swear and then laugh bobbing up and down repeating "Ouch Fck", or "Fck, ouch(spilled drink) oh`shit - damn bird", he would accomplish this by being cute; 'nuzzling-up'   licking chalk dusted fingers that were holding a beer.  Awe how cute, but watch out, when he had lulled you into thinking it was nice, ~zap~never drawing blood, he would give a finger a hard squeeze, often resulting in a spilled beverage and a stream of cuss words.

It wasn't just that. Brady Loved to go climbing & was into the routine; The best door-bell/alarm clock, squawking at day-break & when you walked up to the rig.  Always laughed at the stick-clip 'machine' and would fly up to & 'check' peck at 1st bolts/ pieces of pro. Always saying things like 'watch me', 'take-me' & "yootied-in'' & "ya`call that a knot?"  as safe as many climbers, a bunch of fun, would eat just the cookie off of the Chocolate Milanos.   We don't know much about "Brassy" Brady; how old or how she learned to play cards but when the eggs started to arrive
he was certainly outed as a she . . . . a Tom Boidy.  

Lori Milas wrote: Seems a little late to be asking this question--I want to go back and re-read rgold's article on how to get asked on a second date.  But I'm also trying to learn the basics of being a decent partner  in the most basic ways.  Such as:  I get a little overwhelmed trying to have my backpack ready at the appointed time.  I still don't know what I should pack for a day out at the crags--rack, ropes, shoes, helmet...  I'm still fussing at 9 a.m.,  when whoever is tapping their foot, waiting for me to get my shit together.  Trying very hard to be ON TIME and ready to roll.  

I don't know how to add all the food and water and stuff I need... it gets heavy.  Even when we are climbing close to the car, most people want to stay out for the day, and not make a return trip for more food and water.  I'm looking for a satchel, or tiny cooler... that won't add yet more weight.

This is the one thing I have truly missed when I have had a guide take me out.  I REALLY want to be a partner, not pampered.  

It is a wonderful thing,  your awareness of your own shortcomings. We all have all sorts of foibles. Some are the sorts of things that can be improved upon, others are the sorts of things that make us - us' ~ you - you, and come with the package.  Always check for knots in the ends, stay tied in,  Don't sweat the small stuff, know what the big deals are. Do what you can do ask for help with things if you need to.   Carry a cheap cooler with a flat 'flip-lid' lid, that holds food/drinks & that you can sit on. Take care of your feet; get the stiffest board-lasted shoes you can find & learn to climb in them, we are not all Jeff Constine, with mutant genetics and Tungsten-cable strong feet.

  .  

Lori - I don't actually know what happened to my back. I never actually wrote about it. Here's the full story:

~~~~~~~~~~
 My Back Story
~~~~~~~~~~

My back has always been solid as a rock and maybe I took it for granted, thinking "I'm not a person who gets back problems." However, over the last two years, I'd sometimes experience lower back ache. A few specific things seemed to cause it to ache: lots of snow shoveling, hauling heavy bags of firewood, and, more rarely, belaying a partner from above very quickly (seems to involve a lot of rapid twisting of your torso). I'd never done so much shoveling in my life than over the past two years, FWIW.

Earlier this year, in the winter, I woke up with back pain so severe that I could barely get out of bed - it was like a muscle spasm. I couldn't bend over or look down. I couldn't think of anything that triggered it. After a few days, the excessive pain resolved. I didn't realize how severe the problem was. I thought I'd tweaked a muscle. It took me a couple of months before I decided it was "probably" a slipped or torn disc, most likely brought on by too much shoveling and hauling, and that I should stop doing things which might be making it worse and do something to fix it. One of the symptoms was a weird "bulging" feeling in the center of my back when I'd flex it - not exactly painful, but scary. I'm guessing, but I think this was caused by fluid leaking out of the disc. I was getting some sciatica in my right hip (never going to the knee), which led me to that self-diagnosis. I couldn't sit for very long without becoming pretty uncomfortable.

Never went to a doc about it. Paying for a diagnosis looked costly and mostly pointless, although if I'd had good coverage I would have gone just to be sure (I have a $6K deductible). I didn't find any symptoms that suggested my problem needed treatment from the medical/industrial complex after asking "Dr Google". I started doing the McKenzie method, stopped all other forms of exercise - quit climbing   - except for hiking, and the problem waned. It took about 1 month before I started to see real improvement (so who knows if the method was effective or if it just healed on its own).

I still have stiffness and pain on flexion of my back, resulting in limited flexion, but I'm working on that cautiously, and it seems to be improving very slowly. The sciatica is completely gone, and I can now sit for hours (which I probably shouldn't do!) without noticeable problems.

So far as climbing goes, it means I cannot do moves that I used to do. Highsteps are more difficult, leaning forward and bending down can be difficult, etc. It means I'm extra cautious when leading, and more timid about onsighting.

I'm mostly too afraid to go back to lifting weights, but I've started doing that again, with very light weights. I recently starting working out on my woody again, too.

End of story.
~~~~~~~~~~

I had lunch yesterday with some family members, all over 50, who now suffer every malady under the sun--but freely admit they live sedentary lives and eat garbage.  I mean, this is what I see EVERYWHERE

Yeah I can see how that happens. Active, healthy people can experience traumatic injuries which take them out for months or years, though, as well. Especially if the sports they enjoy are kind of risky, like rock climbing, skiing, etc. I bet most docs advise elderly people to do light weight training and 30 minutes of walking on a well paved sidewalk for exercise, haha. I mean, I think I have to admit that I'm not climbing for my health, at this point. It seems like climbing is more of a negative for me, healthwise. I've had several physical problems from climbing: 1) overuse injury in my finger tendons which led to me not being able to do my usual weight-lifting (so detrained) or just about anything and almost a full year off from rock climbing. 2) What seemed to be myofascial pain in my upper forearms from too much stressing when climbing, again leading to difficulty with my normal exercise program. I also sprained my ankle while walking around in rock shoes, once, go figure. My ankles are made of glass.

Anyways - staying in shape is a struggle. Some people are lucky and never get injured. Some people get injured more frequently. I seem to suffer a setback almost every year now. It's a battle to maintain health, let alone improve. I do eat a pretty healthy diet, in the sense that it's mostly not processed foods. But, maybe there's something missing, or maybe my genetics just suck.

Lori Milas wrote: Seems a little late to be asking this question--I want to go back and re-read rgold's article on how to get asked on a second date.  But I'm also trying to learn the basics of being a decent partner  in the most basic ways.  Such as:  I get a little overwhelmed trying to have my backpack ready at the appointed time.  I still don't know what I should pack for a day out at the crags--rack, ropes, shoes, helmet...  I'm still fussing at 9 a.m.,  when whoever is tapping their foot, waiting for me to get my shit together.  Trying very hard to be ON TIME and ready to roll.  

I don't know how to add all the food and water and stuff I need... it gets heavy.  Even when we are climbing close to the car, most people want to stay out for the day, and not make a return trip for more food and water.  I'm looking for a satchel, or tiny cooler... that won't add yet more weight.

This is the one thing I have truly missed when I have had a guide take me out.  I REALLY want to be a partner, not pampered.  

Just warn your potential partner of these limitations. I can imagine there are lots of potential partners who would be perfectly fine with these limitations. Personally, I would be fine with it, especially if I liked the person.

If you want to avoid unnecessary delays, pack all your stuff the evening before the trip. That's what we do if we're planning on an early start. My head's not together when I get up at 6 AM and have one cup of coffee. Too often, we forget things. Way better to pack the evening before, or at least put all the stuff out that you plan to bring in a giant pile on the living room floor. Then you can give it a quick look in the morning ("Am I missing anything?") before cramming it in the pack real quick. Oh and if I have food/water in the fridge, I put a post-it note on the pile, reminding me to grab stuff from the fridge.

Unless you're leading or mock leading, there's no reason I can see to bring a rack and draws - your partner will bring that. All you really need are shoes, harness, helmet, belay device. A nut tool, some extra biners, slings, and prusik if you're going to do multipitch. Talk it out with your partner prior to the trip so you know what you're expected to bring.

Food and water is an individual thing... You will need to figure this out for yourself, I think, but you've been on enough trips that I would think you'd have a good idea what you need by now? We often skip lunch when out climbing for a day, but I realize you can't do that. How much food do you usually bring?

Edit to add: Remember, a partnership is a 2-way street. If someone does suit your style, you may decide you don't want to climb with them in the future, too. Climbing should be fun!

Lori Milas wrote: Of great interest to me in this 'climbers over 50" thread is the whole subject of health and fitness in senior years.  I think it bores everyone, except those few for whom getting fit has become a new career. Maybe diabetes has made me more conscious of my own frailty.  But my observation is that, in the absence of proactive and committed lifestyle and diet changes, decline/decrepitude is inevitable.  But WITH the commitment to health, it's still possible to be really strong and healthy.    I had lunch yesterday with some family members, all over 50, who now suffer every malady under the sun--but freely admit they live sedentary lives and eat garbage.  I mean, this is what I see EVERYWHERE.  

I'm the control group for the health foods and supplement experiment. I've dropped most supplements and found that it makes no difference. I eat pretty much what I please. (Though I've started buying tart cherry juice and drinking it occasionally, including adding it to my margs.  ) My biggest challenge is trying to gain weight so that I don't become frail. I'm trying to incorporate milkshakes into my diet. (Also good for my osteoporosis.) We'll see how this plays out. 

No matter who's leading, you only need one rope and one rack. Just figure it out in advance with your partner so you don't wind up with two of one and none of the other. 

I didn't address any of that in the "second date" post.  I emphatically agree with Dragons though; you should be packed and ready to go (except for the stuff in the fridge) the night before---don't ever wait until the "morning of" to start getting ready!  (And yes, it is very annoying to make an effort to be ready and then sit around tapping your toes while someone tries to do all that at the last minute.)

Personally, when I get home from a climbing day, I unpack my pack, throw out whatever garbage has accumulated (LNT, right?), and repack all the climbing gear for the next time so that I won't forget any of that.  The night before, I decide on and add the clothing, food, and water.  In the morning I grab whatever was in the fridge (if anything) and go.

By and large, I don't think food adds all that much weight.  Take what you need, but avoid coolers and extra items to be lugged around.  Water is another matter.  If you need more than you feel you can reasonably carry, then some serious discussions with your partner(s) have to ensue.  They need to pitch in and I'm sure they will if they are worth having as partners at all.  Clothing isn't usually particularly heavy but can take up a lot of pack space (heavy fleeces are the worst).  Everyone has to figure this out for themselves, but I've found over the years that my inclination is to take more stuff than I need.  So when I unpack, I try to take careful note of what I didn't use and ask whether I need it for something unlikely or whether it is simply superfluous.  I'd say if you are bringing much more than baselayer-midlayer-shell you should think hard about why (and when) you need more.

I took a clinic for climbers over 40 (ha!) by Eric Horst, at the Lander climber’s festival. He’s pitching a nutrition product, but the underlying science seemed interesting and relevant to us. Basically, bone broth is a core nutrient for tendon health. This Video lays out the strengthening exercise that goes with it. His person to person advice was to get coaching for using a hang board without injury, but the video gets at the essence. It’s a weird dance, trying to get/maintain strength as we age. 

Lori Milas wrote: Seems a little late to be asking this question--I want to go back and re-read rgold's article on how to get asked on a second date.  But I'm also trying to learn the basics of being a decent partner  in the most basic ways.  Such as:  I get a little overwhelmed trying to have my backpack ready at the appointed time.  I still don't know what I should pack for a day out at the crags--rack, ropes, shoes, helmet...  I'm still fussing at 9 a.m.,  when whoever is tapping their foot, waiting for me to get my shit together.  Trying very hard to be ON TIME and ready to roll.  

I don't know how to add all the food and water and stuff I need... it gets heavy.  Even when we are climbing close to the car, most people want to stay out for the day, and not make a return trip for more food and water.  I'm looking for a satchel, or tiny cooler... that won't add yet more weight.

This is the one thing I have truly missed when I have had a guide take me out.  I REALLY want to be a partner, not pampered.  

Lori I am a little OCD-ish, I generally pack the night before, but check and, sadly, check and re-check in the morning.  I don't normally pack a lot of food; I don't think you need it.  I might pack a banana, maybe a Red Bull, don't laugh but I sometimes pack a beer and even sake  .  I don't need a lot to eat even for a full day of climbing.  If it's hot (like over 30 or so) I'l take two 1L water bottles. I DO take a lot of clothes, a T shirt plus a long sleeved shirt with a collar in summer as I like to keep the sun off my neck.  I'll often wear a cycling cap.

I think what a value in a partner is first and foremost being safe, which means being a good attentive belayer, not taking risks, using the correct knots, being PSYCHED, being on time.  Being talkative but also being very attentive to what I'm doing if you're belaying me.  

Back to food, I'm constantly amazed at how much food some people take. Loaves of bread, salad, fruit, nuts, 2L bottles of orange juice. A LOT of what I see them eat won't even be in their blood stream until hours later. I'd rather eat a good tea (dinner) and breakfast and climb with an empty stomach other than the banana.

Carl Schneider wrote: Back to food, I'm constantly amazed at how much food some people take. Loaves of bread, salad, fruit, nuts, 2L bottles of orange juice. A LOT of what I see them eat won't even be in their blood stream until hours later. I'd rather eat a good tea (dinner) and breakfast and climb with an empty stomach other than the banana.

You seem to have forgotten that Lori is diabetic.  She has to be far more OCD about nutrition than anything you might do with gear.

Fortunately, there is a lot of information on the web about diabetes in the context of backpacking; all of it should apply equally well to climbing.

rgold wrote:

You seem to have forgotten that Lori is diabetic.  She has to be far more OCD about nutrition than anything you might do with gear.

Fortunately, there is a lot of information on the web about diabetes in the context of backpacking; all of it should apply equally well to climbing.

Thank you for that Rgold, but most of my packing challenges are just how surprisingly much stuff there is to take.  I’m thinking perhaps a standard list on an embossed card might save me from juggling backpacks and junk. Food is one more headache but doable. I did finally get an engraved Medic bracelet! Progress. 

It’s coming down to the one liability I find from going with guides so often: they don’t expect much from me. 
I’m picturing being out with a friend who suggests I take a rope and head on up that tall mountain, set up an anchor or two, thread a toprope and rap down.  I’m guessing this is what ordinary partners do. But it could take me some time and figuring to get this accomplished.  If I was to lead it instead it would have to be a molehill.   So... heading into this new season I’m wanting to try.  Willing to learn and wanting to try. 

rgold wrote:

You seem to have forgotten that Lori is diabetic.  She has to be far more OCD about nutrition than anything you might do with gear.

Fortunately, there is a lot of information on the web about diabetes in the context of backpacking; all of it should apply equally well to climbing.

Oh is she?