New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #5

dragons wrote: 

Any advice for moving up this? I've been denied on similar problems before - where you reach up onto a sloper, and it seems like there are no good footholds to help you stand up, and your bodyweight is dragging you off balance, off the wall. How is this problem done? Are you just supposed to haul yourself one-armed up a slope-y edge thing, with your legs hanging down below you?

Abject despair. Check.

Masochism. Check.

That was my day at the gym Monday, which ended with me frustrated and exhausted by a (non) project and then falling off a route I'd previously cruised. Followed by a very sore back when I got home.

As for your problem, it looks hard. I hate holds like that. My only thought would be to try to kick out to a foot hold on the right and sort of lay it back.

John Barritt wrote: @Richard, another way math is like climbing is, emotion never helps in math.......

@Lori, there are no "failures" in climbing as long as you enjoy the effort. I think it was Royal Robins who said "Getting to the top is not a prerequisite, getting back down is." Every time you climb without getting hurt or dying is a tick in the "win" column.

Also, cool heads are grown slowly over time.......

My four kids were all so different, and my oldest daughter was just brilliant in math and science.  I threatened her not to take calculus before I could learn it... she utterly defied me.  She can sit and program endlessly, with little frustration, and we spent her childbirth labor trying to estimate the walk-able surface of the sun. (surface minus x amount for gaseous layer).   But I was warned when she was very young that she might not be as in touch with her body because she was so engaged in her head... that she might be physically awkward.  And that was the case.  Climbing seems to blend mind and body in such a seamless way, you cannot get frustrated with physical limitations, or mental ones or the whole thing goes to hell.     That could be one of the things that bind us here... and causes such powerful energy in climbing.  Everyone here has the fever.  

dragons wrote: 

Any advice for moving up this? I've been denied on similar problems before - where you reach up onto a sloper, and it seems like there are no good footholds to help you stand up, and your bodyweight is dragging you off balance, off the wall. How is this problem done? Are you just supposed to haul yourself one-armed up a slope-y edge thing, with your legs hanging down below you?

The answer is never going to be hauling yourself up one-armed with your legs hanging below. When I look at that photo I see that the setter wants you to switch which hip you have toward the wall a couple different times. With your hands on Pacman your right hip will be toward the wall and your feet out left using holds 2,3,5 or 6. Lean back into the handholds, don't pull down. Then, your hip switches to left at some point you will have your feet out right on 8 and 10 while you lean back (body pulling left) with your hands on 11 and 12. It should go easily at that point if you are capable of balancing on delicate holds and keeping your center of gravity in the right place. 

Just curious, what's it rated? I'd expect it to be about a 10d or 11a. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

The answer is never going to be hauling yourself up one-armed with your legs hanging below. When I look at that photo I see that the setter wants you to switch which hip you have toward the wall a couple different times. With your hands on Pacman your right hip will be toward the wall and your feet out left using holds 2,3,5 or 6. Lean back into the handholds, don't pull down. Then, your hip switches to left at some point you will have your feet out right on 8 and 10 while you lean back (body pulling left) with your hands on 11 and 12. It should go easily at that point if you are capable of balancing on delicate holds and keeping your center of gravity in the right place. 

Just curious, what's it rated? I'd expect it to be about a 10d or 11a. 

Senor, do you think 11's a hand hold? I was thinking that you go directly from the undercling on 9 to 12 (a long reach, maybe with a passing assist from 10) and that 10 and 11 are foot holds.. But it's hard to tell how 10 and 11 are oriented. 

Maybe full 11 or 11+ if you're short.

Hey, dragons, get back there and tell us what works.

wendy weiss wrote:

Senor, do you think 11's a hand hold? I was thinking that you go directly from the undercling on 9 to 12 (a long reach, maybe with a passing assist from 10) and that 10 and 11 are foot holds.. But it's hard to tell how 10 and 11 are oriented. 

Maybe full 11 or 11+ if you're short.

Hey, dragons, get back there and tell us what works.

I'd agree with you that it looks like you'd go from undercling on 9 with L hand and up to 12 with R hand. 10 and 11 might be interim hand chips but probably just foot holds. Always hard to say with a two dimensional photo.

s.price wrote: Sorry for the drift but...
I'm flying into LA on the 2nd but not leaving until the next morning.
I get in around 4pm.
Anyone want to get together for dinner or a beer?

My business shop caught on fire and I need to see the damage.

Shitty reason to have to go home here's hoping it's not to bad

Lori - I can't answer either one of your questions. These routes were set last week, and still haven't been graded. If you look, you'll also see a purple route and a yellow route on the autobelay. The yellow is obvious and easy, so maybe .5 or .6. The purple is a little tricky, so I'm guessing .7. Usually they set something much harder like 10a and up on the autobelays, so this pink one is very likely 10a at a minimum. "Is #13 a positive hold?" - I've climbed the other routes in this corner, but I didn't think to inspect hold #13 on the way down (I like to onsight routes if possible). I'll check it out next week, assuming I make it to the gym. I'll try to get some video as well. PS rgold has a big fan club on MP, and I think he knows it   

John Barritt - "I could tell you how to do it but where's the fun in that?" Sadist!   

Old lady H - "my climber self would simply cheat off the purples". Wish I'd thought of that! I'm too danged honest lol.

wendy weiss - "try to kick out to a foot hold on the right and sort of lay it back". That is worth a try. Regarding the holds: I believe #11 is a hand hold. I recall using it that way. Salt Pump setters are wonderful in that I've almost never encountered a route that limits me because of my height - and I'm 5'0". They'll sometimes put two similar holds, one above the other, to give you a little boost up.

Señor Arroz - Thanks for the analysis... There's no grade, but you're probably correct; see my response to Lori.

Señor Arroz and wendy - Given the setting style at this gym, I think left-facing #11 is a helper hold to get short people up to #12, but #12 is a killer. I don't think I used #10 at all. I would love to see this route done in good style.

This feedback is super-helpful. I will definitely do a video recording when I try it next time I'm there, to give you guys a better idea of the angles. I'm dubious that I can do this route clean, at my strength and skill level. I've climbed a couple of 10a's clean at this gym but nothing higher. And I'm still falling off that danged red bubbly .8 on climber's left.

s.price - "My business shop caught on fire" - yikes, I hope insurance covers it.

dragons wrote: 
Any advice for moving up this? I've been denied on similar problems before - where you reach up onto a sloper, and it seems like there are no good footholds to help you stand up, and your bodyweight is dragging you off balance, off the wall. How is this problem done? Are you just supposed to haul yourself one-armed up a slope-y edge thing, with your legs hanging down below you?

I would tend to agree with Senor. Perhaps laybacks up the two long (12 & 13)  holds then pushing off  # 13  to reach across to the other long hold to the right. Easy for me to do sitting here in front of the computer with a beer in hand

s.price wrote: From the pics I have seen it doesn't look too bad but I have about 300,000 worth of equipment in there and my 53 Apache truck.
Hard to replace that truck :)

No equipment means no income so thought I should go home and check it out. It is insured. I have employees who count on that equipment for their living. They are the ones that matter.

I'm so sorry, sir! Wish I could just jet off for dinner...

If someone manages to meet Steve, wouldja give him a hug on behalf of me?

Best, Helen

s.price wrote: From the pics I have seen it doesn't look too bad but I have about 300,000 worth of equipment in there and my 58 Apache truck.
Hard to replace that truck :)

No equipment means no income so thought I should go home and check it out. It is insured. I have employees and clients/ contracts that count on that equipment. They are the ones that matter.

In Oklahoma it would be.....1."Are y'all OK?" 2. "Is the Apache OK?" and 3. "What about the equipment?"

Don't let it stress you out.....

Stay an extra day and Ill climb with ya S price.

Ok, so H:;  ...loan Dragonlady your poolcue thingy so she aint gotta hang on that MRSA laden plastic watchallet.  And BTW ...  Yall DO carry a bottle of alcohol around to clean up with, right?   I use vodka or gin somedays.   I cringe at the very thought of gyms.  

Look H: I was just gonna use you for your connections.  Show a girl a good time and it gets around a lot faster than if'n you treat a guy to something different.   A couple stories about me to the right people and I get new Minions.  Advertising hasnt been working, and I dont do social media, I dont qualify.  (Really; I tried.  I dont qualify.)

So H, its EASY to have great places hidden a hundred miles away... having places where everybody goes but doesnt see or know the essential details is better somedays. My particular thought experiment would have had you sharing a cup of coffee at some breakfast dump, then home again in a very few hours... alla cordining.  

My regular guy is gone today, so still being fickle I am still looking for a new partner... maybe another geezer with unlimited time... or a young bum with no job and no ambition... (uno, like I was or am.)

  So...  After 45 years of steady stoke, thousands of miles into his tripping... my buddy just up and dies.   Decades of skiing, climbing, biking and hiking with his malamutes, and he goes off and just dies... after only a couple years of worsening health after he let them docs put in a heart valve to replace something he had been running for almost 70 years!  It was saad to see.   In Bed, near his wife.  I saw the end of his last pitch Monday, lowered him off and pulled out the ropes.  

So its time to begin breaking in a new geezer.  Like good dogs, we only last so long and then we need replacing.

Maybe I'll find a dropout college kid with few prospects?  ((...at either end of the economic spectrum is a leisure class ...))

How does an old sidekick advertise for a new Kick?  Is that even a thing?

 

But thats OK, the youngest kids collarbone is healed if you ask me, and hes got his bike in the shop for refit from the front Tacostand.  ...His daughters is almost old enough to begin subverting, too.  Just got them new bikes for Christmas...  In a couple years we will addict them to trails and then they will be going all kinda places with Grandpa.  ((evil laugh))

s.price wrote: Sorry for the drift but...
I'm flying into LA on the 2nd but not leaving until the next morning.
I get in around 4pm.
Anyone want to get together for dinner or a beer?

My business shop caught on fire and I need to see the damage.

tried to send you a PM through MP and it's not working. Feel free to message me directly or post up an email where I can get through to you. 

Rokjox Teleski wrote: Ok, so H:;  ...loan Dragonlady your poolcue thingy so she aint gotta hang on that MRSA laden plastic watchallet.  And BTW ...  Yall DO carry a bottle of alcohol around to clean up with, right?   I use vodka or gin somedays.   I cringe at the very thought of gyms.  

Look H: I was just gonna use you for your connections.  Show a girl a good time and it gets around a lot faster than if'n you treat a guy to something different.   A couple stories about me to the right people and I get new Minions.  Advertising hasnt been working, and I dont do social media, I dont qualify.  (Really; I tried.  I dont qualify.)

So H, its EASY to have great places hidden a hundred miles away... having places where everybody goes but doesnt see or know the essential details is better somedays. My particular thought experiment would have had you sharing a cup of coffee at some breakfast dump, then home again in a very few hours... alla cordining.  

My regular guy is gone today, so still being fickle I am still looking for a new partner... maybe another geezer with unlimited time... or a young bum with no job and no ambition... (uno, like I was or am.)

  So...  After 45 years of steady stoke, thousands of miles into his tripping... my buddy just up and dies.   Decades of skiing, climbing, biking and hiking with his malamutes, and he goes off and just dies... after only a couple years of worsening health after he let them docs put in a heart valve to replace something he had been running for almost 70 years!  It was saad to see.   In Bed, near his wife.  I saw the end of his last pitch Monday, lowered him off and pulled out the ropes.  

So its time to begin breaking in a new geezer.  Like good dogs, we only last so long and then we need replacing.

Maybe I'll find a dropout college kid with few prospects?  ((...at either end of the economic spectrum is a leisure class ...))

How does an old sidekick advertise for a new Kick?  Is that even a thing?

 

But thats OK, the youngest kids collarbone is healed if you ask me, and hes got his bike in the shop for refit from the front Tacostand.  ...His daughters is almost old enough to begin subverting, too.  Just got them new bikes for Christmas...  In a couple years we will addict them to trails and then they will be going all kinda places with Grandpa.  ((evil laugh))

I'm so sorry, that's really rough to lose a friend. 

You've credited me with much more street cred than I ever will have, lol! I've struggled all along to get and keep partners myself. So, I don't exactly have connections. My first (and only, for a couple years) partner I gave birth to, 25 years ago. The others still number a very few. If you just wanna do some pedestrian cragging locally, hit me up, if you can keep your expectations really low. I'm just not cut out for backcountry now, and going down a hole in the ground is not my cup of tea.

We do have two Facebook groups for partner wrangling, sorry that's not an option for you. I loathe Facebook, but it is what there is.

I wish I could help ya. I don't have a stable to introduce you to, sorry!

Coffee offer still stands, on my end, too.

Best to you, sir! Helen

I had an encouraging, heartening time at the gym today. A young guy I met a year ago, Chris, came up to talk and kibbitz... which is happening a lot lately.  I had just watched a bouldering video he posted on Instagram from a recent trip to Bishop... an amazing feat and real joy to watch.  I met Chris when I spent some time in our local bouldering area, Deer Creek, and sat up on a perch just laughing and taking pictures of him and friend showing off.  We got to know one another...

To boulder or not seems to be a question I just can't finally answer ...  yes, then no.  Chris says let's do it... we'll set up crash pads, work on that slab, and master the tall crack locally.  True to Dallas, I offered to bring a fresh hot apple pie.  I mean... how kind.  Why would a twenty-something great boulderer want to spend time with someone who can't manage a V1 and would flounder A LOT?  But this seems to be the nature of climbers... as here... who are just truly generous and stoked.

I think it's just the comfort and friendships developing.  I worked on my 10d on the short wall... just trying to piece together the hand and footholds that would allow me not to fall off and move further up.  It's getting easier.  

And... along the positive line of thought... I realized today that a year ago at the gym I could last an hour... with just a few easy routes, and then a puddle of exhaustion.  And outdoors... in J Tree, a four hour day was my max, with lots of sleep after.  Lately I've been climbing an hour and a half, and ready to go for more after that if only I had a partner who could stay on... and outdoor at J Tree has been easily 6-8 hours, easy recovery.  So... we CAN continue to learn and add endurance.     The Self-Coached Climber recommends 3-4 sessions of climbing a week (indoor or out), with at least 2 hours of climbing per session.  I think I might be able to manage that.  

Doug Elkins wrote: Long time lurker here, about time I broke the ice with an intro.  I’m 63, started climbing about 9 months ago, knew right away I was hooked. Joined a local gym last May, working my way up SLOWLY and steadily while soaking up as much info as possible.  This site has been a huge help just reading through the archives and this particular group of threads (2k  and counting!) has gotten me past wondering if starting climbing at this tender age was bordering on lunacy.

To date, Ive only climbed outdoors a dozen times or so, a mix of TR and sport (6s.7s and 8s) which has only left me wanting more. Some nice climbing in our White Mts, but a shorter season than I would like and my business has kept me indoors during weekdays. Will be building in some flex time this coming season to get in at least one midweek day to avoid the crowds! Really looking forward to more days on rock, but also feel fortunate to have a decent local gym for practice and conditioning.

Have been struggling a bit with a couple sore fingers as of late. I was just looking into the rice bucket, like the idea of modifying with sand. Will be heading to Home Depot this weekend to get set up.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Wow, started at 63!  I though I was a late starter, I started at 50 (I'm now 56)...

dragons wrote: Since Lori is posting gym puzzles, here's mine from Salt Pump in Maine (props to Salt Pump for their interesting route setting). I tried doing the one with the neon pink holds, shown below, yesterday. It's just left of the autobelay, whose clip you can see at the bottom of the photo.

In case it's not clear (click the image to enlarge), the route starts out pretty much vertical going up the corner, then meets a short overhang. This is not a 90° roof, but overhung maybe 30°, enough to make me work - I'm weak. There's a pink pair of holds near the bottom of that overhang that we'll call pacman holds (looks a bit like pacman with his mouth open), annotated with #9. Then there are two long semicircular holds, one just below the overhang (#12), and one above it (#13).

I'd seen people struggle on this route. When I went up it, I was expecting those semicircular holds to be very positive curved flakes, so I'd be able to move up them using my arms. It turns out that the lower one, below the overhang, is actually not really positive at all. It was kind of flat (not convex, nor concave), not a flake at all. I put my hands on the thing, realized there was no moving up, and fell, so I didn't get a good look at it or the next hold.

Since I was busy being desperate, I can't recall where my feet were as I moved up to this hold. But I'm pretty sure my left hand was in the pacman undercling (his overbite). I think my torso was kind of flagging down and off to the left, so I was facing more towards the right. Since my hand was in the undercling, my arm was kind of pushing me out from the wall. I reached up with my right hand for #12, realized there was nothing to grab, and fell.

Any advice for moving up this? I've been denied on similar problems before - where you reach up onto a sloper, and it seems like there are no good footholds to help you stand up, and your bodyweight is dragging you off balance, off the wall. How is this problem done? Are you just supposed to haul yourself one-armed up a slope-y edge thing, with your legs hanging down below you?

When you're on Mr Pacman's overbite, are you standing up straight?  That is, are your legs straight? I feel if you're pulling up really hard on the undercling and pressing really hard with your legs you may be able to stand up and reach for hold no. 12 and use that just for balance rather than trying to grip it???  

Whoa, coming out of the gym back to rock was interesting.  Spent most of the time sorting gear and fixing Barb's harness.  

TR at Black Rock, thought we had picked a .7, turned out it was a 9, maybe.  Lots of new routes here that are not in the 2015 Todd Goss book and couldn't I'd on MP.

Tomorrow is ​Sand dunes​​​, those that know our weaknesses what do you think, is better protected Leopard Skin, or Thousand Pints of Lite?

Getting off the rocks and back to the gyms didn’t work out so back to the rock for me

Dallas R wrote: Whoa, coming out of the gym back to rock was interesting.  Spent most of the time sorting gear and fixing Barb's harness.  

TR at Black Rock, thought we had picked a .7, turned out it was a 9, maybe.  Lots of new routes here that are not in the 2015 Todd Goss book and couldn't I'd on MP.

Tomorrow is Sand dunes, those that know our weaknesses what do you think, is better protected Leopard Skin, or Thousand Pints of Lite?

Dallas

I did Leopard Skin route over 20 years ago. It was a very fun climb. I did the left variation. I remember using a couple of cams below the crack and the crack was a little sandy and to brush it off before I placed gear. I do not remember any bolts below the crack when I lead it. 2nd pitch traversed out to the right and then climbed straight up.

We hiked off to the right, climbed and rapped down.

John