New and Experienced Climbers over 50

So, just curious... as I prepare to head back to the site I found last week, with rope and climbing partner... is this something I can find on MP or should add to MP when I climb it?  I do not see indications on the MP map that it has been climbed, although I know it has been (because climbers hike back to that area, or perhaps Buzzard's Roost) with climbing gear.  

Lori Milas wrote: So, just curious... as I prepare to head back to the site I found last week, with rope and climbing partner... is this something I can find on MP or should add to MP when I climb it?  I do not see indications on the MP map that it has been climbed, although I know it has been (because climbers hike back to that area, or perhaps Buzzard's Roost) with climbing gear.  

Talk to local climbers before adding an area to MP. Sometimes areas stay off the radar for a reason. Even if there's not an apparent reason, everything doesn't need to be on here. It's also more polite, IMO, to leave that to the "locals" rather than being The New Person who decides what to post! ;-)

Best, OLH

Old lady H wrote:

Talk to local climbers before adding an area to MP. Sometimes areas stay off the radar for a reason. Even if there's not an apparent reason, everything doesn't need to be on here. It's also more polite, IMO, to leave that to the "locals" rather than being The New Person who decides what to post! ;-)

Best, OLH

Good advice Helen!

Lori Milas wrote:

It's the withania!  That's an Ayurvedic herb known as Ashwaganda... translated as "strength of a stallion". (you can make the inference. :-) )  Is this a tea already packaged, or do you put the ingredients together yourself.  I have nearly all those herbs in my kitchen cabinet.
Here in America we have a beverage called "covfefe" ...    I drink it every morning.  

Oh the inference is obvious! :-)  No I buy the herbs from the local health food shop, they sell them in bulk from glass jars and you just take a scoop or two of this a scoop or two of that and put them in to brown paper bags.  I used to buy pre packaged stuff but it's expensive that was and this way I can make my own mix   

Lori Milas wrote: Maybe it's getting to be an old saw by now, but part of the meaning of this thread ('over 50") is whether we CAN continue to move, climb, grow at this age and beyond, and what does it take to keep that edge?   There is an assumption, even here, that decay is inevitable and that decrepitude is happening as we speak.  (with the exception of a few shining examples :-) )  
I take and appreciate so much advice and encouragement from others on this thread... and I'd like to contribute my bit from my avocation studying health issues: science now says that while aging in inevitable, falling apart is not.  80% of what we know as 'aging' is man made.  Just piss poor choices of diet, sedentary life, finally catching up, over years of time.  And it can still be reversed.  

I like this quote from gerontologist Henry Lodge, MD: "Physical exercise and involvement in life trigger great waves of 'grow' messages throughout your body and mind.  The physical messages you send by being consciously and steadily active, and the emotional messages you send by being engaged in the great hunt of life, can override the default message of decay in your body. If you are relentless yourself, if you are active and engaged every day, you can resist and even swim against the tide into very old age.  Bring your gifts and the discipline that has served you for years to bear on this new set of problems, and you can set the realistic goal of living like fifty until you're eighty and beyond."  (Henry's 1st Rule... Exercise six days a week, for the rest of your life."  Six days, SERIOUS exercise, until you die. It is the great life saver... )

I believe it's true.  It's a daily challenge to override the messages all around, that it's time to slow down, take it easy, quit.  Having said that... I don't know what ANY body (at any age) can handle in terms of climbing.  Things that hurt a few months ago seem to have healed so I'm happily surprised that my body seems to heal quickly.  But there must be some limits. (?)  This week I went on two long high altitude hikes, and climbed hard 3 days... that third day was one too many.  I just couldn't say no to the opportunity. :-) but almost couldn't function on Friday.  Decided it's time for a good long rest, but this weekend already up and about, wondering whether I can head out again.  Is it bargaining with the devil to say that my fingers are toast from vertical climbs, so today I'll find some slab?     

Life is good.  Getting better.

I would agree entirely that exercise (as it's put here 'serious' exercise) is extremely important to overall health, as is diet.

Carl Schneider wrote:

Oh the inference is obvious! :-)  No I buy the herbs from the local health food shop, they sell them in bulk from glass jars and you just take a scoop or two of this a scoop or two of that and put them in to brown paper bags.  I used to buy pre packaged stuff but it's expensive that was and this way I can make my own mix   

Carl! I made some of your tea! I love the hibiscus and rose hips, makes it a lovely red. Thank you!

Old lady H wrote: I think most of you know, by now, that I intend to be as alive as I possibly can be...until I'm not.

That said, early this morning, going up the easyish scrambly part of our approach trail (which I take very slowly and cautiously), I decided the next move was to put one foot up on a stairstep boulder. Okay, let's put the other foot up too (so, semi squatting).

Next thing I know, as I attempt to weight both legs and simply stand up, with an assist from my hands pushing down, both knees simply collapse and refuse to budge. Hurts like hell, but the mental part hurts more. Theyve each threatened to go, but not together, and never have they failed entirely, just slightly wobbles. So. I cry some, while yanking a leg back down from that squat for a plan b. Head up the trail, put it aside, have a nice day, don't let the others down.

End of the day, hiking slowly and carefully back down, a pity party tries to muscle in. I basically tell the part of my brain that whispers shit to me to eff off. That, is "climber", the one who fights back, fiercely and stubbornly. Over and over.

Till the day she can't.

Best, Helen

Hope your knees get better soon Helen.
 
I suffered a torn ACL ligament in one knee years ago and an torn medial ligament in the other, plus bone rubbing on bone in my knees and torn cartilage etc.  Anyway, when I go away for my long trip my knees swell up and hurt terribly after a week or so.  One day I was climbing up at a place named Hollow Mountain and doing pretty well with my bouldering.  There were a few beginner climbers there who were quite impressed with this old man (me) doing his thing.  Anyway, they left and I stayed for a bit and then I decided to head down (it’s a fair old hike).  So off I amble, crashpad and kletter tasche on my back, placing one foot quite gingerly in front of the other, leaning on my big stick from a 'Kangaroo tail’ or 'grass tree' plant (Xanthorrhoea) - which I named ‘IL Bene’, looking like the old man on the Led Zep IV album cover. Anyway, as I ambled down I came across one of the beginner climbers that I was climbing with up at Hollow Mountain.  “What the f*$k happened to you?!” he exclaims, looking shocked and aghast. “What happened to me?” I reply, “I got OLD that’s what happened to me!”  “But, but” he stammered “You were crushing up there!”  “Yeah I can CLIMB alright” I said, “but my knees are f*&$ed, dude…”Was a very funny exchange.  But we keep on keeping on…

BTW 'IL Bene' is clearly from a very very old plant as I've never seen one with a flower stem as thick as this, it'd be maybe hundreds of years old.

Lori Milas wrote:

Carl! I made some of your tea! I love the hibiscus and rose hips, makes it a lovely red. Thank you!

Oh coolio! I've spread some 'tea' love     

Great story, Carl, thanks! What an interesting plant! My knees are arthritis, that simple, left one more severe than the right.

The best treatment by far, is to stay active. So, do that, watch my weight, try not to suck up too many cookies...

It's pretty good motivation when "move it or lose it" is literal.

Love the tea exchange, too! My hubby's mom was Canadian, and taught him to build a "proper" pot of tea, many, many years ago.

I'm no Jeff....but, this is the closest to a hand foot match I can get, short of duct taping my wrist to an ankle! When I'm in long pants, I have been known to grab a pant leg and yank a foot up. Dunno if that's aid, or gear?

Best, Helen

Carl Schneider wrote:

Oh coolio! I've spread some 'tea' love     

Well in addition to your herb tea and Led Zep 4, perhaps I can share a hint for weak knees and ACL injuries. Silica is great for bones, hair and skin. Horsetail is one good natural source. I like the tincture because it disperses in water.  With all the climbing we do, gotta keep those bones and tendons strong!

Lori Milas wrote:

Well in addition to your herb tea and Led Zep 4, perhaps I can share a hint for weak knees and ACL injuries. Silica is great for bones, hair and skin. Horsetail is one good natural source. I like the tincture because it disperses in water.  With all the climbing we do, gotta keep those bones and tendons strong!

Cool, I'll go and chase some horses around the paddock.  Do you just cut the tail off with scissors?  Does it grow back again?

Carl Schneider wrote:

Cool, I'll go and chase some horses around the paddock.  Do you just cut the tail off with scissors?  Does it grow back again?

Ha ha. But just in case you’re serious this is an herb and one species is toxic. So buy the capsule or tincture. Or BioSil. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Ha ha. But just in case you’re serious this is an herb and one species is toxic. So buy the capsule or tincture. Or BioSil. 

Ha ha.  Just joshing with ya!  People find it hard to work out if I'm joking when I'm standing right in front of them, let alone when I'm communicating via text from the other side of the planet!!

Carl Schneider wrote:

Ha ha.  Just joshing with ya!  People find it hard to work out if I'm joking when I'm standing right in front of them, let alone when I'm communicating via text from the other side of the planet!!

That brings up a good point, Carl.  I think you should consider paying a visit here!  It might clear your head to be standing right side up for awhile.  And then we could meet you...   and witness these fabulous bouldering skills you have. 

New climbing attire... loving this. 

Lori Milas wrote:

That brings up a good point, Carl.  I think you should consider paying a visit here!  It might clear your head to be standing right side up for awhile.  And then we could meet you...   and witness these fabulous bouldering skills you have. 

Ha ha!  My bouldering skills ain't fantastic, just fair to middling.  I WAS considering Germany (the Frankenjura) with a side trip to England (I was born in England, my father was German) but I don't think I'd ever survive a long plane trip.  It's hard enough surviving the five hour drive to The Grampians let alone a plane trip!!

Carl Schneider wrote:

Ha ha!  My bouldering skills ain't fantastic, just fair to middling.  I WAS considering Germany (the Frankenjura) with a side trip to England (I was born in England, my father was German) but I don't think I'd ever survive a long plane trip.  It's hard enough surviving the five hour drive to The Grampians let alone a plane trip!!

One word: GRIT.

It's God's own rock.

Getting back to mapping/navigation, there is a new entry in the field, FatMap.com, that seems to be a higher-resolution version of Google Earth (without all of the gadgets that GE has built in at the moment.)  The main advantage of FatMap so far is the aforementioned higher resolution.  For example, here is a screen shot of a cliff band just SW of Lower Lola Montez lake. fatmap.com/info/@39.34910623603166,-120.42413787806397,1823.6829047036058,-49.106587454543494,0,2176.9991457958436,normal .  

Try for the same thing in GE to see the reduced resolution there.  

If you rotate the image, you can get a better handle on the rock angle.  It is definitely slabby, but steep enough perhaps for some decent climbing.



FatMap is new and will presumably be adding more useful data; right now it is more oriented to Europe.  I couldn't search for Lower Lola Montez Lake; that's not a feature FatMap recognizes yet (GE does)

rgold wrote: Getting back to mapping/navigation, there is a new entry in the field, FatMap.com, that seems to be a higher-resolution version of Google Earth (without all of the gadgets that GE has built in at the moment.)  The main advantage of FatMap so far is the aforementioned higher resolution.  For example, here is a screen shot of a cliff band just SW of Lower Lola Montez lake. fatmap.com/info/@39.34910623603166,-120.42413787806397,1823.6829047036058,-49.106587454543494,0,2176.9991457958436,normal .  

Try for the same thing in GE to see the reduced resolution there.  

If you rotate the image, you can get a better handle on the rock angle.  It is definitely slabby, but steep enough perhaps for some decent climbing.

FatMap is new and will presumably be adding more useful data; right now it is more oriented to Europe.  I couldn't search for Lower Lola Montez Lake; that's not a feature FatMap recognizes yet (GE does)

rgold!  Thank you!  This is wonderful.  I'll bet this picture is of the slab area where I was last week.  This is amazing!  
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't even know how to accomplish the next step, which is to pack a few more sandwiches, add a rope and some gear, and rehike that route... climb to the top and build some anchors... and then add a partner to climb with.  I think I can handle it.  But wow... this map is awesome!  I will check out Fatmap.  
PS. And did I say THANK YOU? 

I know we've talked about this before... but I'm not sure which page/where.  I'm wondering if you long-time climbers have found a plateau where your body cooperates and nothing breaks down.  I"m just not sure how muscle and tendon strength are supposed to go--or where you have hit a grade that is your absolute limit forever!

Back at the climbing gym, I feel stuck.  I don't know what it will take to break through to more difficult climbs.  I can now climb 10a and 10b with some grace.  10c is a maybe... usually flailing towards the top.  10d is an absolutely no.  3 of my fingers are permanently swollen, one knee feels achy some of the time.  I did notice last night that I was able to get through some laybacks, work my way across a roof...  up and over.  But nothing like the grace and precision of some of the climbers I watch. (I call one Spiderwoman). 

I will say this... the new gal I'm climbing with, (who is no more than 30), has no real experience or finesse... but she just doggedly goes for the 11's.  Somehow, by hook or crook, she gets there.  I feel like I'd rather work on a 5.9 to learn control and skill, than to grasp and the higher grades in a complete frenzy. (But I'll admit I'm jealous. I see her soon sailing way past me.)  Ryan has promised me that in time, strength and body moves come. (but then, he's 27). So when things are swollen... to you give it a rest?  For how long?  Is it possible that this is my limit... and no more? (in terms of difficulty)

I don't feel this way about climbing outside. I'm wondering what your experiences are.  Maybe the pace is slower... or the rock is kinder... I never have the feeling that I'm injuring myself outside.  And, if vertical climbing wears me out, I can switch it up to some slab.  Probably you yahoos who really climb hard outside do indeed strain things. 

Here's a piece of good news.  Finally a real practical benefit from climbing.  Every year in July I go out to my plum tree and pick plums for canning... it always feels perilous.  This year without even thinking I climbed to the top of the 10 foot ladder, balanced on one foot while reaching way into the tree for plums, felt totally solid and safe.  Picked them all and made plum jam. So there's that.