Helmet on Epinephrine?

Tradiban wrote:

Boom. The debate is over:

http://www.bikinginmpls.com/im-done-wearing-helmet/

Pretty much, though I do wear one biking.

I don't wear a helmet unless I am doing a route (Alpine) with true random rock fall hazard that the leader is likely to rain down.

Fundamentally, if someone said use one on Epi because gumbies might drop shit....I would say, don't ever climb below gumbies. Stop. Period. End.

A Helmet protects you from very small stuff that hasn't fallen far. When you hear **real** blocks going by like jets roaring overhead....helmets are a joke. 

As far as rockfall goes, it really has to be very small stuff for a helmet to make a difference. The real stuff goes through humans (and helmets) like tissue.

Epinephrine is a very popular route.  Having many parties above me scares me more than hitting my head on a fall. 

King Tut wrote:

Fundamentally, if someone said use one on Epi because gumbies might drop shit....I would say, don't ever climb below gumbies. Stop. Period. End.

Well, that makes most routes in Red Rocks off-limits.

Eric D wrote:

Well, that makes most routes in Red Rocks off-limits.

BINGO.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114203925/dropped-cam-on-epinephrine-today

King Tut wrote:

Fundamentally, if someone said use one on Epi because gumbies might drop shit....I would say, don't ever climb below gumbies. Stop. Period. End.

Great Idea in theory... Not always possible.  You say get up earlier - and that does work, but gumbies also get up early... Also sometimes when routes crisscross each other and join up at the top, you can't control what happens on neighboring routes.  You might start out without anyone above you only for a group of gumbies to cut in front of you several pitches up...  What to do at that point?  Particularly if rapping off keeps  you under them anyway?  

And yes helmets are not a panacea that solve all problems, but they do solve some... Just like seatbelts...  If somebody t-bones you from the side and crushes the passenger side, yeah your chances might be better not having a seatbelt and getting thrown to the other side of the car, but you can't protect against everything...You do the best you can and seatbelts are generally the best option, even if they fall short or cause more problems in a few situations....

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:

Great Idea in theory... Not always possible.  You say get up earlier - and that does work, but gumbies also get up early... Also sometimes when routes crisscross each other and join up at the top, you can't control what happens on neighboring routes.  You might start out without anyone above you only for a group of gumbies to cut in front of you several pitches up...  What to do at that point?  Particularly if rapping off keeps  you under them anyway?  

And yes helmets are not a panacea that solve all problems, but they do solve some... Just like seatbelts...  If somebody t-bones you from the side and crushes the passenger side, yeah your chances might be better not having a seatbelt and getting thrown to the other side of the car, but you can't protect against everything...You do the best you can and seatbelts are generally the best option, even if they fall short or cause more problems in a few situations....

Look, I totally get it that some people have traveled across the country to do a route like Epinephrine and its their big goal and everything.

But if you are trying to "tick" "classics" on some kind of tight "schedule" then you are doing it wrong, imo.

That is not what climbing is about to me. Purty sure I have found more than once that the empty "2 star" route near the "3 star" route has no crowds and is every bit as enjoyable.

King Tut wrote:

Look, I totally get it that some people have traveled across the country to do a route like Epinephrine and its their big goal and everything.

But if you are trying to "tick" "classics" on some kind of tight "schedule" then you are doing it wrong, imo.

That is not what climbing is about to me. Purty sure I have found more than once that the empty "2 star" route near the "3 star" route has no crowds and is every bit as enjoyable.

Oh I agree having a backup plan definitely helps...  The funny thing is the 5 star routes at Red Rocks are supercrowded while the 4+star route 10 feet over is empty...   

 If you are a weekend warrior and want to get on the classics, how else do you suggest doing it?

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:

Oh I agree having a backup plan definitely helps...  The funny thing is the 5 star routes at Red Rocks are supercrowded while the 4+star route 10 feet over is empty...   

 If you are a weekend warrior and want to get on the classics, how else do you suggest doing it?

You just gotta ask yourself: What's better, a good route to yourself or a super crowded gumby-fest "classic"? :)

Definitely the Gumby-fest.  No routefinding!

King Tut wrote:

You just gotta ask yourself: What's better, a good route to yourself or a super crowded gumby-fest "classic"? :)

You definitely have a good point...

You should wear a helmet on any multi-pitch route. Its 2018 people. Helmets can keep you alive. I don't understand why this doesn't make sense to some people. Same reason you wear a helmet doing every other extreme sport. i.e. rafting, biking, skiing, etc. holy crap. 

Nicholas King 1 wrote:

You should wear a helmet on any multi-pitch route. Its 2018 people. Helmets can keep you alive. I don't understand why this doesn't make sense to some people. Same reason you wear a helmet doing every other extreme sport. i.e. rafting, biking, skiing, etc. holy crap. 

Some of this is regional bias again as rock fall and parties above is more common in some places than others.

Its 2018 alrighty and sanitized and safe prevails on the interwebs....Its like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. No other people and safe conditions and its fantastic.

King Tut wrote:

Some of this is regional bias again as rock fall and parties above is more common in some places than others.

Its 2018 alrighty and sanitized and safe prevails on the interwebs....Its like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. No other people and safe conditions and its fantastic.

Tut, you teach newer climbers. Do you tell them to not wear a helmet?

I also tell children to not look both ways before crossing the street and to test the stove by touching it.

FFS Principal Frank, read the thread. Helmet use is situational unless you have no judgment whatsoever.

Otherwise you would wear one 24/7, wouldn't you?

Whoda thought that perhaps your question about this specific route might have turned into a seatbelt/abortion/helmet/welfare debate?
I mean it's all kinda the same thing, in a way, with talking points, polarization, hyperbole, and false equivocations.  Pretty soon, someone will bring up Hitler in some context.

Specific to this route the disadvantage to a helmet is in the chimneys where you want to put your back to a wall or squeeze in a bit there and there and it is annoying.  Same with any chimney.
Specific to this route the advantage of a helmet is that it tends to be a popular route and it is long, thus there may be many people ahead of you.  To that end, bear in mind that rockfall is not the only concern, and that people drop other stuff sometimes.  I'm not sure what kind of crowd is attracted to that route these days, or in what numbers on the day/season you might do it.  But otherwise, I don;t recall it being particularly in need of a helmet beyond any other route in the area.

King Tut the Obstinate wrote:

Don't wear a helmet.  Lockers are useless, don't use them. Dyneema is suicidal, use tied runners instead.  ALWAYS MAKE AN ANCHOR OUT OF THE ROPE. Guide mode is dangerous except for when I'm belaying Tradiban.

Your opinions are all over the place.

um, those aren't my opinions lol.

But imitation (however erroneous and exaggerated) is the most sincere form of flattery. :)

King Tut wrote:

Its 2018 alrighty and sanitized and safe prevails on the interwebs....Its like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. No other people and safe conditions and its fantastic.

Fantastic - sure, but it's still incredibly stupid. Ask any ER doctor. I've blown a tire on a Harley at 45mph in very 'safe conditions' - lonely road, fresh pavement, dry, etc. Glad I had the helmet when a 4" nail punctured the rear tire and the back end slid out mid-corner. I'd rather plan for the unexpected.

Jared M wrote:

Fantastic - sure, but it's still incredibly stupid. Ask any ER doctor. I've blown a tire on a Harley at 45mph in very 'safe conditions' - lonely road, fresh pavement, dry, etc. Glad I had the helmet when a 4" nail punctured the rear tire and the back end slid out mid-corner. I'd rather plan for the unexpected.

Or you could ask me, who as an MD has spent more than his share of time in Trauma Bays taking care of all kinds trauma patients and motor vehicle accidents and of course many are head injured. Also, 3 skull fractures and 6 concussions for me personally. Maybe my mom should have but me to bed in the upper bunk wearing a helmet (only counts for one concussion lol).

Helmets are situational. Its a thing that requires judgment. If you don't have the experience to have good judgment, or doubt the safety of a given situation wear one. What, me worry?