Chicks With Nuts℠ Summertime Event In Seneca Rocks, WV!

Hunter McPherson wrote:In all seriousness though, I really do feel bad for you women who feel guys dominate climbing to the point where you have to isolate yourselves from the rest of the climbing world.

They are going rock climbing. With other rock climbers. That is only "isolating themselves from the climbing world" if you believe that the climbing world only exists where men are climbing.

...are we starting to see the problem?

yukonjack wrote: Must we encourage any one group by excluding others? Do you not know any male feminists?

Come on now - a group of climbers getting together does not in any way prevent other groups of climbers from also getting together and going climbing. You are not being excluded from climbing just because you do not happen to be invited to one particular event. Do you also complain that you are not invited to cancer survivors climbing events, or military veteran climbing events? (if you didn't happen to fit either of those categories).

Em Cos wrote:Come on now - a group of climbers getting together does not in any way prevent other groups of climbers from also getting together and going climbing. You are not being excluded from climbing just because you do not happen to be invited to one particular event. Do you also complain that you are not invited to cancer survivors climbing events, or military veteran climbing events? (if you didn't happen to fit either of those categories).

Actually not complaining. It's a relatively free country, so more power to the OP.

But how does adding the "only" into the event banner make it better?

And why is asking similar questions immediately complaining?

If you don't want people to bust your chops don't give your clinic a name that alludeds to male genitilia. It could be Chicks with cams or chicks with stoppers but you chose chicks with nuts. So yes you are going to get your balls busted.

By coincidence I went to Seneca the same weekend of this event last year. All the women that we met were super chill and none of the negative vibes or exclusivity that y'all are imagining exists. Kelly's getting more done as a climber and a guide than I (for one) ever will. This is all silly but I'm glad to bump the thread.

Should have called the mens' version "Guys With Racks". Anyway...

Doug S wrote:Should have called the mens' version "Guys With Racks". Anyway...

Win.

I am shure that kelley is a great guide and the class was fun. I do however find her response on this thread to be a typical case of women not wanting equal rights but wanting superior rights. She gives the clinic a provocative name and then blames men for the banter that follows.

yukonjack wrote: Must we encourage any one group by excluding others? Do you not know any male feminists?

yukonjack wrote: Actually not complaining.

My apologies. Calling the event exclusionary seemed like complaining.

Look, everyone, it's a bunch of women going climbing. If that bothers you, it may be worth your time to really think about why.

Em Cos wrote: My apologies. Calling the event exclusionary seemed like complaining. Look, everyone, it's a bunch of women going climbing. If that bothers you, it may be worth your time to really think about why.

It's an exclusionary event but it also adds value for some women. Just accept both sides of the coin.

Nobody cares that a bunch of women are climbing together-- good for them. The feeling of being left out comes from the fact that men are excluded.

Would I have even attended if it were open to both genders? Probably not, although it might make my boyfriend more willing to go trad climbing. He gets really nervous whenever i take the cams out of the closet.

Chelsea Kimiko wrote: I In a community that likes to think itself as open minded, welcoming, and friendly

Chelsea what community are you talking about? Is this the same community that named routes like 'psycho faggot' at seneca?

Em Cos wrote: My apologies. Calling the event exclusionary seemed like complaining

Fair enough. There is a nuance in my questions that might be too subtle for interwebs conversation. No apologies necessary.

The event is exclusionary. Not because I called it that, but by it's own definition.

You're right. I'm not excluded because I'm not invited (male).
I wasn't invited to the Oscars. I'm not in the movie business. I wasn't "excluded" from the Oscars.
But someday I could go to the Oscars. Because of what I decide to do, and how well I do it.

Not so much with gender specific organizations. I'm not invited to a woman-only event because of my genitalia; not my actions, skill, chosen hobby/profession, health status, or beliefs.
Can that really be "better"?

Why does this bother me (can't speak anyone else)?

The belief that leaders need to / should craft special places for " __ only" to make things "better" is kinda sad, and maybe even defeatist.

Why is "women-only", better than woman-focused, or tailored for the woman climber, or women-lead?

I'm sure this is a super-chill event, as reported by a few other MPers.

Is it better because some dad wasn't welcome to belay his daughter while she was coached by a woman guide?

Not a complaint (maybe you'll just have to trust me on that score), but something I ponder.

Let's be honest. Of course this is an exclusionary event, and defending this based on a plea to feminism seems silly to me. First of all, there's nothing to defend. This is just a bunch of women wanting to climb with other women without the wafting of excess testosterone in the air. That's all good…two thumbs up from this guy, who also dislikes the typical crag bro-fest!

Chicks with Nuts is just the vertical world's version of "womens' night out". Nobody should be getting worked up over it from either end. I hope y'all have a great time!

Yes, these types of events exclude men on the basis of their gender. The point is that women are consistently excluded from many other parts of society on the basis of their gender. Maybe not explicitly, but on a de facto basis. If you don't see how that's the case, pay more attention the next time a female politician is criticized for her clothes or for being too aggressive. Climbing is a relatively inclusive sport, but I still know many people who assume that most women are only climbing because their boyfriends do. Until society stops excluding women, they have every right to carve out a few little niches of exclusivity for themselves without men whining about how unfair it is.

In climbing, it's best to be able to learn from someone with more experience. Unfortunately, a woman seeking out a mentor is likely to be swamped by dudes (most of them not remotely qualified to mentor someone) who really just want to get into her pants. Likewise, an experienced female climber looking for a partner is going to find a lot of guys looking for a date. Events like this help women connect with mentors and partners without having to deal with any of that.

Private exclusionary event are just fine.

This is America, no one gets to tell you who to associate with.

First I am a man. And I have been at Seneca when the Chicks with Nuts girls are out climbing. Kelly does an awesome job with them and deserves credit - not criticism. Maybe it would be better if we all spent more time actually climbing and less time typing about others climbing.

wonderwoman wrote:I'll just sit back and listen to the men here discuss what women should and should not be able to do. It's not like this ever happens in real life or politics, after all.

Yes, don't worry WW! Just give us two more pages and we'll have this event all figured out for you!

chris24graham wrote: In climbing, it's best to be able to learn from someone with more experience. Unfortunately, a woman seeking out a mentor is likely to be swamped by dudes (most of them not remotely qualified to mentor someone) who really just want to get into her pants. Likewise, an experienced female climber looking for a partner is going to find a lot of guys looking for a date.

most sexist comment of the thread award goes to Chris24Graham

Mitchelle Kelly wrote: most sexist comment of the thread award goes to Chris24Graham

Can you explain why, out of curiosity? My point was just that it's pretty common for guys to see a single female climber as a potential date, and that there are plenty of single female climbers who want to find people to climb with who aren't trying to date or sleep with them. If that's not a fair statement, my apologies.

^^^

Mitchelle Kelly wrote: most sexist comment of the thread award goes to Chris24Graham

uh...we hold these truths to be self evident

Maybe the point here is don't post an exclusive event on a public forum that excludes 90% of its users. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me

chris24graham wrote:Unfortunately, a woman seeking out a mentor is likely to be swamped by dudes (most of them not remotely qualified to mentor someone) who really just want to get into her pants. Likewise, an experienced female climber looking for a partner is going to find a lot of guys looking for a date.

The idea that men are only motivated by sex is a dumb, wrong, negative stereotype. Do you not have friends of the opposite gender?

Mitchelle Kelly wrote: The idea that men are only motivated by sex is a dumb, wrong, negative stereotype. Do you not have friends of the opposite gender?

I worded it too strongly. I wasn't trying to imply that all men are motivated by sex, and you're right that that's a counterproductive stereotype. At the same time, there's a reason that women posting on partner finder threads tend to get way more responses than men. It's not that men are lecherous creeps, it's more that most male climbers would rather date another climber, there are more male than female climbers, hence any single female climber is likely to attract some interest whether she wants it or not. That's all I meant to say.