Alpine > Trad > Sport > Boulder

Johnny Nubbins wrote: That would be fourth class in the Gunks

But it would be HARD 4th class--at least 4.12d.

TWK wrote: BearBreeder, I usually find myself in close agreement with your posts, but I gotta say most of the sport climbers I've talked with don't do ANY trad 'cause they don't know nuthin' 'bout placing no gear--and don't have interest in learning. Guess we hang out with different folks. Sounds like you need to send me your friend list. ;-)

something like 70%+ of the routes in squamish if not more are trad or mixed lines ... most good sport climbers i know here eventually do some trad ...

having a big monolith called the chief right by the road is a great incentive to learn how to progress beyond a sport weenie ;)

bearbreeder wrote: something like 70%+ of the routes in squamish if not more are trad or mixed lines ... most good sport climbers i know here eventually do some trad ... having a big monolith called the chief right by the road is a great incentive to learn how to progress beyond a sport weenie ;)

but more often than not they once dabbled in it, got scared a few too many times and kept to the bolts after.

I wonder what the percentages of styles we have here on Mtn Proj is?
I'll guess- 15% pure sport/pad people, 25% pure traddies and 60% do it all.

TRmasta wrote: I wonder what the percentages of styles we have here on Mtn Proj is?

That would be an interesting survey, but who would trust the results? MP posters would have too much fun with it to be taken seriously!

TRmasta wrote: but more often than not they once dabbled in it, got scared a few too many times and kept to the bolts after.

not the ones i know ... they run up the grand wall or other such multis on the OFF days ... stuff some "trad" climbers brag about loudly ...

the sport climbers i know spend most of their timing climbing sport of course ... but on their fun/rest/do something different days ... they go out and onsight 5.10+/11-+ cracks ...

and if the gear is good and the fall is clean they arent afraid to take the fall ... unlike some moderate "trad" climbers who are honeslty afraid of their own shadow once they get above gear ...

understand that out here "trad" is nothing special ... every good rounded climber i know does a bit of everything eventually ...

the only people ive met who say loudly that other climbers are "lesser" or sport climbers arent "as good" (and not as a joke) are people that often dont climb very hard, bragging about how sending that well protected 5.7 trad route is better than any bolted 5.12 ... i once saw some loud mouthed "mountaineers" take 2 grounders on a 5.5 because he was bragging about how hardcore he is for climbing it in boots ...

i used to have the same attitude having started in trad, but having the privilege to teach gear to 5.12 sport weenies has been an eye opener ... as long as they have the proper respect for the dangers and gear ... having them onsight my projects at the time within the first year (and safely) destroyed any notion of "sport weenism"

in fact taking up sport as hard as i can is what has allowed me to attempt 5.12- cracks ... something i would never have been able to do running up moderate trad routes alone ..

gear placement and safety is very easy to teach to someone with the proper attitude ... hard climbing is not easy to teach or learn at all IMO

its that simple ;)

bearbreeder wrote: not the ones i know ... they run up the grand wall or other such multis on the OFF days ... stuff some "trad" climbers brag about loudly ... the sport climbers i know spend most of their timing climbing sport of course ... but on their fun/rest/do something different days ... they go out and onsight 5.10+/11-+ cracks ... and if the gear is good and the fall is clean they arent afraid to take the fall ... unlike some moderate "trad" climbers who are honeslty afraid of their own shadow once they get above gear ... understand that out here "trad" is nothing special ... every good rounded climber i know does a bit of everything eventually ... the only people ive met who say loudly that other climbers are "lesser" or sport climbers arent "as good" (and not as a joke) are people that often dont climb very hard, bragging about how sending that well protected 5.7 trad route is better than any bolted 5.12 ... i once saw some loud mouthed "mountaineers" take 2 grounders on a 5.5 because he was bragging about how hardcore he is for climbing it in boots ... i used to have the same attitude having started in trad, but having the privilege to teach gear to 5.12 sport weenies has been an eye opener ... as long as they have the proper respect for the dangers and gear ... having them onsight my projects at the time within the first year (and safely) destroyed any notion of "sport weenism" in fact taking up sport as hard as i can is what has allowed me to attempt 5.12- cracks ... something i would never have been able to do running up moderate trad routes alone .. gear placement and safety is very easy to teach to someone with the proper attitude ... hard climbing is not easy to teach or learn at all IMO its that simple ;)

Dam dude, you ruined the fun, now there is nothing left to argue about. Can we go back to the idea that 5.7 trad is sick, extreme, and gnarly as life goal? If it were such, I have already accomplished my life goal and that makes it so much easier to feel good about myself. On the other hand, that 300 pound beast did too, and I don't know how I feel about that! Wow, lots of beasts doing their thing. Go on beasties, go on!

What?

Tits McGee wrote: I dislike the OTC (off the couch) Trad guys that spew ethical non-sense,.

What about the OTC Trad guys with absolutely no ethical code whatsoever?

matt davies wrote: What about the OTC Trad guys with absolutely no ethical code whatsoever?

Considering my name is Tits, I tend to enjoy climbing with people flexible morals and no ethics what so ever, so those guys are okay.

Cool. Just checking.

You guys want to know something crazy? I had led a few 5.8s on gear before I even knew there was such a thing as sport climbing! Once I found out how much fun sport climbing was I went to Thailand and stayed for three years. Then all I wanted to do was climb hard trad so I went on road trips and did that. Finally, in 2012 some of my best trips were to bouldering areas.

Next year I have plans to visit Spain and Greece for sport, Norway and California for trad, and France and the Peak District for bouldering. But compared to a lot of UK climbers I am still very one dimensional because I don't really know how to climb on high mountains or over glaciers (not well enough to go alone anyways).

As usual, America is a strange place. For a continent with so much alpine terrain, there are surprisingly few "climbers" who actally know how to move in the alpine world. I sort of fall into that category and I've been climbing for half of my life.

Not that there is anything wrong with that - just making an observation.

Ryan Williams wrote: Next year I have plans to visit Spain and Greece for sport, Norway and California for trad, and France and the Peak District for bouldering. As usual, America is a strange place. Not that there is anything wrong with that - just making an observation.

Damn bro, just move to Boulder and call it good.

chufftard wrote: i would concede that a 12 trad climber is a better climber than a 12 sport climber.

This seems correct to me as well, but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison, since trad routes are typically onsighted and not worked extensively. If trad 12s were rehearsed the way sport routes are, then maybe some of us mortals might get on them.

matt davies wrote: Damn bro, just move to Boulder and call it good.

So I can be a weekend warrior with two weeks of holiday? No thanks. Each of those six trips above will be between 7 and 16 days. AND there is the added bonus of living in a real city with actual things to do besides going to the climbing gym and talking about how cool it is to live in Boulder.

In regards to the statement that a 5.12 traditionalist is better/more hardcore/experienced than a 5.12 sport climber is not so. It can be so but to state it as a fact is just not correct. I've lead several 5.10s traditionally (just breaking into the grade) but have switched leaders, while I was on lead, on a seneca 5.6 because I wasn't willing to run out a 15-17ft straight layback (wasn't experienced at liebacking and wasn't going to stop to place gear). My point is that what types of routes are you climbing? Same styles of climbing? Can you really compare a perfect hands crack traditional climb to a perfect hands bolted line (I don't know of one)? Everyone has strengths and weaknesses so to compare one climber to another is in no way every going to be factual down to the details, just enough to keep one busy mentally. I am smoother, more efficient at hands crack climbing then I am at a crimpy face climb.

I know some beautiful climbers who are constant students of all forms of climbing and want to be a good CLIMBER, not just a sport climber or traditionalist, etc. I also know beautiful climbers who could care less for placing gear or who hate bouldering therefore don't. To each his own is a fact not a cliche (even if you choose what the masses do you still had/have a choice and it was YOUR choice).

I stayed up all night thinking about this topic: trad, sport, alpine, boulder, sport, alpine, trad, boulder, trad...oh wait, no I didn't. This should be one of those topics that should have a word limit to post; maybe at the 45th word just cut yourself o..

chufftard wrote: one can make the case that sport climbing has a skill set of it's own: crimping repeatedly, climbing through being pumped, keepng hips in with dropknees and backsteps, rest stances etc. but these skills don't change much through the grades unless you are on really steep or really slabby terrain. so, you pull harder on a 12 than an 11 and places like the Red, but the movement is very similar, even into the 13s.

So many things wrong with that statement.

In fact, this entire thread really shows how little MPers know about climbing.

Who says you can't rehearse a trad climb? And who says than 5.12 trad climbs don't get on sighted!?!

Ryan Williams wrote:In fact, this entire thread really shows how little MPers know about climbing. Who says you can't rehearse a trad climb? And who says than 5.12 trad climbs don't get on sighted!?!

I don't think anyone said either of those things.

Even when I was trad climbing I typically didn't rehearse routes. Nor did the folks I knew. Our standard was well below 5.12, so maybe things are different at that grade.

Nevertheless, my impression is that if someone reports being a "5.12 trad climber", they are doing the routes unrehearsed, and if someone reports being a "5.12 sport climber", they are redpointing, not onsighting. Pretty different skill levels.

Maybe I am mistaken about what folks are actually up to.

Ice climbing season in canada > all other outdoor activities