Turning back to "respect the mountain"

Hi all
I'm trying to find some specific examples of mountaineers turning away from mountains because of their religious significance to the indigenous people of the region. Obviously Shiprock in New Mexico and Bhutan with Gangkhar Puensum, the highest unclimbed mountain are examples of this, but I seem to remember some stories about Messner and Bonington either abandoning climbing altogether or at least not summitting purely out of respect for local customs.
Can anybody help me out with the specifics?

In New Zealand people are discouraged from standing directly on the true summit of Mount Cook because of the native Maori religions.

Sacred Summits by Peter Boardman has an account of the first ascent of Gauri Sankar south summit, Tseringma, which they leave untrodden.

Mt. Kailas, Tibet is a great example. Thought to be the home of Lord Shiva, and absolutely sacred to Hindus and Buddhists alike. Pilgrims circumnavigate the peak, fully prostrating at every step. Messner said, ""If we conquer this mountain, then we conquer something in people's souls ... I would suggest they go and climb something a little harder. Kailas is not so high and not so hard."

It is still officially unclimbed, I believe, BUT I did read long ago that two british climbers did summit, and were later killed by outraged monks.

tew.org/archived/kailash.st…

I think the climbers on Machapuchare turned back below the summit. Was back in the 50's if I recall correctly. Maybe Wilfred Noyce? Not sure who it was.
Mark

People need to get over their prehistoric fairy tales. It's fine if you wish to respect their irrational demands but I don't think it makes you a shit head if you don't wish to enable someone else's dependence on ancient bed time stories.

Lull at work so I found this-
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macha…
It was Wilfred Noyce and AD Cox, they stopped 50 meters below the summit.

On another topic, Leeroy needs to get a life. Maybe even try climbing or some other active sport.

Ben B. wrote: 50 years from now, people will roll their eyes and laugh at a lot of the beliefs YOU buy into today. I don't particularly give a shit about their religions, but if nothing else, it's illegal to climb the mountain. You don't spit in the face of the host-nation of some of the greatest climbing in the world. Stop being a total cock-sucker in every thread you trip over.

There isn't much of anything I believe in these days Ben so I doubt there will be much eye rolling or laughing. It's nice to see that, as a religious man, you treat all religions with the same respect that you expect others to give to your literal interpretation of some archaic stories that you've decided are the correct ones.

I'll stop being a "cock-sucker" if you agree to stop spraying your noobtard bullshit all over every climbing site on the webz. Deal?

Ben B. wrote: Ah.. it's myblackhound. Meh.. fuck off, you little carbuncle. You're just as insignificant here as you are in real life.

Did you use that awesome calculator of yours to figure that out? Actually you got my name wrong, but your close.

I wasn't aware that we had met in "real life". Or maybe that's just more noobish blabbering.

Leeroy Jenkins wrote: There isn't much of anything I believe in these days Ben so I doubt there will be much eye rolling or laughing. It's nice to see that, as a religious man, you treat all religions with the same respect that you expect others to give to your literal interpretation of some archaic stories that you've decided are the correct ones. I'll stop being a "cock-sucker" if you agree to stop spraying your noobtard bullshit all over every climbing site on the webz. Deal?

hey leeroy, eat a dick.

I'm an atheist, I think religion is absolutely idiotic and has no place in modern society. However, there are some people out there with religious beliefs (a fuckton, actually) and some of them are actually a lot smarter than you and me. Therefore I have respect for them and am willing to overlook the irrational belief in a higher power, not only because it's polite, but because they would make me look like a fool and consequently no one would like me.

Stop making people hate you, you stupid fucking moron.

Ben might post some dumb stuff on here, but at least he appears to mean well, and only picks fights after others (you) have unfairly attacked him.

I hope you're just doing this for the entertainment value, but please, be a little more clever. getting people to bite when you're being obviously sarcastic is a lot more funny than the stupid shit you're spraying right now.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, just what I was looking for. I'm sure if any of us encountered a new culture that irrationally demanded we not climb a mountain, the peak next door would be pretty promising too.

Thread Title Correction: Prehistoric fairy tales redtagged my mountain??WTF??

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:People need to get over their prehistoric fairy tales. It's fine if you wish to respect their irrational demands but I don't think it makes you a shit head if you don't wish to enable someone else's dependence on ancient bed time stories.

Sounds like the opening line of a movie which ends with a tribal chief saying: "But first, Bunga Bunga!"

Leeroy Jenkins wrote: There isn't much of anything I believe in these days Ben so I doubt there will be much eye rolling or laughing.

You beleef in notink?

Word, just give your house to the closest Natve American if you care so much about others beliefs. This whole dang country was special to one tribe or another you nooblets.

If I shit under a rock today, can I claim that rock as a spiritual place tomorrow?

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/106579086

Back on topic, there are some very sacred mountains that see many ascents, i.e. Mount Fuji (Fuji-San, out of respect), see above photo.

Historically, the American (or rather Eurocentric) way is to disregard all wishes of marginalized people. Therefore, people may not be surprised by your ascent, and it will perhaps prove and reinforce their hypotheses about Americans.

As for me, I see climbing as an art, and if you cannot find anything else to climb, you perhaps need a lesson in creativity.

Finally, would you sexually assault a nun? That is what one may express to locals through an ascent.

Interersted in an ascent, invite a local...that is what climbing is all about!

My favorite is Crazy Horse Buttress in Thailand where the monks actually live in some of the caves and everyone coexists in harmony. I'm 100% sure this situation would be different if it was in the US. I'm the first one to call upon the great spaghetti monster in the sky when it comes to religious discussion but the Buddhists seem to not bring that out in me, they actually walk the walk without a bunch of talk and that deserves major cred in my book.

Now I'm still looking for the mountain with Joe Smiths golden tablets buried deep inside, I want to send that hill! Maybe romney will lead us to it when he gets elected!

David Sahalie wrote: remember Cave Rock? yep, closed for climbing and everything else because an Indian might have slept there once. I bet you wanna-bes won't be so accommodating and understanding when the tribes come to take your local crag.

This statment is wrong on so many levels.

And no, I do not know or remember Cave Rock.

mobley wrote:Now I'm still looking for the mountain with Joe Smiths golden tablets buried deep inside, I want to send that hill! Maybe romney will lead us to it when he gets elected!

Sorry, the golden plates got lifted up into heaven. And their former resting place in Hill Cumorah looks like a boring walkup. Though, it is in New York, and we all know that Gunkies are weakmos, so who knows, it might present a challenge for some locals?

Andy Novak wrote: This statment is wrong on so many levels. And no, I do not know or remember Cave Rock.

Please enlighten us why it is "wrong on so many levels". Cave Rock is a pretty interesting case study. There's a freakin highway tunnel blasted through right there, the place was completely trashed before DanO and other local climbers cleaned the place up, and the regular prescence and use by climbers ensured that it stayed clean and that little punk asses with spray paint weren't tagggin the place up. It wasn't as if the Washoe were actually using the place, ever, and it was on Forest Service land.

The Access Fund's argument was that it was inappropriate to close USFWS lands for the religious purposes.

But it's nice to see that you know it's "wrong" when you admit you don't know anything about the place.

Once an archeological site is destroyed its gone forever. Pot shards are important. I'm sorry your one out of a million crag in Josh got closed in the 90's. Get over it.

"Indians" did not "take" anything back.

David, do you do anything during your day other than post your combative and short-sighted opinions on this site?