Temporarily Naming Unnamed New Routes

A long time new route developer is not giving names to his routes. He will not post them up on MP.com. Another developer and some others are posting them up but one person is giving them names followed by question marks or AKA. For example ????AKA Fun Fun Fun or I Call It Grounder ????

Should this person just post the routes as Unknown since it bothers the developer?

Should this person wait for someone to post up the name then Edit his post?

How should this be handled?

Since this site tends to keep the op up regardless of how badly it may be written, either the original author or an admin are the only ones who can edit the info (='s pain in the ass). Adding made-up names makes editing even worse, as someone has to verify the original name did not come from the developer. I'd say that keeping it simple, such as "Unknown #3" leaves room for the real name eventually.

If the route developer refuses to name them, then I see nothing wrong with giving them your own names. If other people use the names and it helps reference the line, then it's a good thing. I always thought giving them a name was part of the fun of making a new line. Who goes to pub quiz without coming up with a timely team name?

But OK, for MP I would just call them Unnamed 1, 2, 3... If you enter all of the route data and the developer decides later to share the names or come up with them, great. If not, I don't know. This may go into the subject of cataloging routes a developer didn't want to be put online.

The Pine Cliff sport crag is like that. Many of the lines are in an old guide book, but one of the developers wanted to keep traffic down, so they requested no one put up topos, route grades, etc. online. So far I don't think anyone has, and it does keep it a word of mouth thing.

Naming other people's work is a form of douchebaggery. Its like when they name gym routes, there's an annoying aspect to it. If you know the name of the developer, then throw his name on it, followed by an identifier like a number or letter. Devising a name should be reserved for the guy who did it, even if he chooses not to.

Haven't a lot of old climbs put up in the day before climbs were named been given a names? I guess they got the FA teams name. Chouinard/Herbert, Steck/Salathe, etc. Maybe that is what should be done. Of course it would be annoying to see ten Steck/Salathe routes. I appreciate your thoughts.

Turn it around Mike and ask, is not naming one's "work" the sign of a douche? Just asking a question?

'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.'

1Eric Rhicard wrote:Turn it around Mike and ask, is not naming one's "work" the sign of a douche? Just asking a question?

I agree with that. Thats really unusual, as you know naming the route is part of the fun. Maybe infer his dickishness into the route names, like "Asshat 1, Asshat 2" I'd be down with that. But having someone pull out his own names, like "Blue Sky at Dawn" just sorta makes me gag a little. Plus it then opens the door for mis-naming all over the place. I have a few unnamed routes around b/c we're not publicizing yet, so some kid can come along, find them and run to MP and log in a name. Slippery slope.

Another point to consider is how even temporary names stick. Before Tom Hanson's guide and before the Rock and Ice Guide (you and I were in the same issue there, btw), I did a Xerox guide to Castlewood that was distributed out of Paradise and Thrillseeker's. I had some of Tom's routes and walls named wrong, but Hubbel put them in a book of his. Now, those names still float around like over on RC.com

Mike Lane wrote: I agree with that. Thats really unusual, as you know naming the route is part of the fun. Maybe infer his dickishness into the route names, like "Asshat 1, Asshat 2" I'd be down with that.

Ha ha ha. I agree. It's bizarre when people bolt areas and then hem and haw about divulging any information about the routes like their names, how difficult they might be, etc. But I think it's more common that it appears.

Asshat 1 Asshat 2, I love that. Of course the guy naming the routes is probably doing it to tell the guy not posting that he is an asshat. Not naming a route then having the temporary name stick might be a bit of poetic justice. Of course the asshat name might stick too. That would be really funny. If you can't laugh at this shit go play shuffleboard.

The developer puts up tons of routes so perhaps the real asshat is the guy that gives the routes names. That person also puts up tons of routes.

HMMM.

I've made it a habit, when I post routes or problems I know nothing about to call them "Unknown aka $working name$" just to simplify reference. Part of the idea is to gall the actual FA into coming forward with the real information. Honestly, if the mods/admins find changing a route name (or other info) to be that much work, then somebody else needs to take the job, since that's the entirety of their job as a route DB mod or admin.

Eric,
You'll be happy to hear this. I recently spoke to the route developer that you are referring to about this exact topic. He actually happens to have some extra time on his hands over the next couple of weeks and plans to come up with names for many of his unnamed routes.

Arizona climbing thread.

It isn't that the routes are not being given names, it is that they have not yet been given names.

Give it time and they will be named. As for working titles, I'd just list them as Unknown, unnamed, working title, [insert name], rough draft, etc. Keep it fun and introduce a temporary name (Temporary name is a good route name)until said developer gets around to naming it.

As you may remember Eric, Tucson had a similar issue a few years back with The Matterhorn Boulder.
See this thread
and Big Bad Wolf

I think something like "Unnamed (but sometimes called***) would work until the first ascentionist names it or a community name sticks or even a descriptive name. A note in the description that it wasn't the FA's name would suffice for the historically minded. I think if someone is into being all secretive about their routes than they have to a certain degree abrogated their proprietary rights that we as a community give them. It is a gray area though. If they just simply haven't come up with a name yet, then I would go with a descriptive name.

Red wrote:Eric, You'll be happy to hear this. I recently spoke to the route developer that you are referring to about this exact topic. He actually happens to have some extra time on his hands over the next couple of weeks and plans to come up with names for many of his unnamed routes.

Hmmm, perhaps the names given have prompted said developer to get busy and name them. Ha Ha.

FWIW, this is clearly not an area-specific topic.

If a route is not named, one could use "Unnamed" or "TBA" as opposed to "Unknown X".

If one wants to encourage a name to be unearthed, sometimes a temporary name can be used...it has worked on MP.

Sometimes, it's clear that a name is not known and a distinguishing feature like "Hand Crack" or "Offwidth" or "Ear Route" could be used until the real name emerges.

Certainly, there are routes that were "insignificant" enough that they weren't named initially. A number of routes at N. Table Mt. in CO come to mind. Still, if an earlier ascent surfaces, it seems reasonable that the earlier ascentionists names should trump the newer or temporary names.

Personally, I can certainly see how some made up name would nauseate other climbers when it's clear that the route has been climbed previously.

On another note, sometimes it's not clear that a route name is right, just because someone posts some comment. In fact, there have certainly been examples that I've been involved with where the name posted with apparent certainty turns out not to the be original name.

So, with all that being spewed forth, if anyone has route name corrections for CO, Vedauwoo, or MA, please contact me with an email and any reasons, and I'll do my best to update the route in question.

Thanks!

Leo Paik wrote:FWIW, this is clearly not an area-specific topic. If a route is not named, one could use "Unnamed" or "TBA" as opposed to "Unknown X".

True. Unnamed routes/renamed routes issues are not area specific. Except in this case the original post has a strong bit of subtext.

1Eric Rhicard wrote: Hmmm, perhaps the names given have prompted said developer to get busy and name them. Ha Ha.

Will the real ASSHOLE of the Homestead please stand up! I

David Stephens wrote: Will the real ASSHOLE of the Homestead please stand up! I

Yes sir I will. Hey David, I prefer to be known as ASSHAT 1.

I posed this question to get some feedback outside the little puddle I live in where many may or may not be influenced by me or another local. I think the responses have been interesting.

You think I am a asshole yet others who don't know me or anyone around here think it is dick not to post route names. Not saying there is a consensus just that people are on both sides. So I think it is kind of a wash.

Don't try any of that funny business at Mt. Woodson.