Stickclipping a redpoint attempt

Jon Moen wrote: Good point. Maybe you should talk about pre-clipping sport route anchors with that 6-part, 30 foot golf ball retriever/stick clip. That still counts as a redpoint, right?

Oh yeah, the rule book actually states that if you can clip the anchors of a climb with your stickclip, it's the same thing as a send. It's right below the rule that a route can never get more stars in the guidebook than its number of bolts.

And that 30 foot POS has STILL not fallen apart!

Cam Reade wrote: Bottom line.....it makes no difference.

Damn. And I thought we were doing something important here.

Richard Radcliffe wrote:Soooo, if it's not sport until you hit 12c, what do you call a rap-bolted 11? I guess I'm butt-hurt.

Nature hike or scenic walk?

camhead wrote: And that 30 foot POS has STILL not fallen apart!

It held up like a champ when I javelin-threw it from 70 feet up that route in Tensleep. Thank you tall grass!

duh wrote: Nature hike or scenic walk?

Now I'm really butt hurt. Can't climb sport, can't climb trad. Shit.

camhead wrote: the rule that a route can never get more stars in the guidebook than its number of bolts.

So that is why trad climbing is no fun any more. No bolts=no stars.

At least we can give every route in the Creek two stars, for the two shiny bolts atop every crack.

camhead wrote: Oh yeah, the rule book actually states that if you can clip the anchors of a climb with your stickclip, it's the same thing as a send. It's right below the rule that a route can never get more stars in the guidebook than its number of bolts. And that 30 foot POS has STILL not fallen apart!

we (myself and gg) gave serious consideration to destroying it, except that then we'd have been without a stick clip.

Andrew Haag wrote:The routes grade, amount of bolts, how dangerous a sport climb is, has absolutly nothing to do with what a red-point is. Just because a climb has a dangerous start doesnt change what the defenition of a red point is. Are we bringing the rock to our level or are we stepping up to the level of the rock?

You are talking tons of crap that you know very little about while barely climbing most peoples warm-ups. Maybe you should open your mind and shut your mouth that way you have a better chance of seeing how ridiculous your argument is. You are like a high schooler giving a lesson on how imaginary numbers don't exist to Steven Hawkins. Just because a beginning Algebraic texts says so it doesn't mean that people who actually write those books don't know more. Rules do change depending on the game. Your game is old, tired, and played out.

Johny Q wrote: You are talking tons of crap that you know very little about while barely climbing most peoples warm-ups. Maybe you should open your mind and shut your mouth that way you have a better chance of seeing how ridiculous your argument is. You are like a high schooler giving a lesson on how imaginary numbers don't exist to Steven Hawkins. Just because a beginning Algebraic texts says so it doesn't mean that people who actually write those books don't know more. Rules do change depending on the game. Your game is old, tired, and played out.

I've never asked this before. Is there an ignore feature on MP? I didn't see one on my personal page. The only thing I've seen from this guy is belligerent personal attacks directed toward other posters. Talk about old, tired, and played out.

Lotta fellas holding each others' stick clips in this thread. Best stay out of the way, wouldn't want y'all to think I'm open for bidness in this thrust 'n gape fest... Carry on...

after having read every one of the posts (4x), compiling all of the responses into a database, cross-referencing details about those who responded (including their climbing abilities, location, age, favorite beer, and hair style); i have completed a thorough analysis and determined that there are two potential answers to the OPs question:

if the OP climbs for his own enjoyment, it doesn't fucking matter how he defines a redpoint. we don't give a shit and he shouldn't care what we think either.

if, however, the OP climbs in order to live up to the established, fully agreed upon standards of the MP community and impress the members of that community with his redpoints, he needs to find another hobby 'cause that shit ain't ever going to happen.

Johny Q wrote: You are like a high schooler giving a lesson on how imaginary numbers don't exist to Steven Hawkins. Just because a beginning Algebraic texts says so it doesn't mean that people who actually write those books don't know more.

Stephen

Johny Q wrote: You are like a high schooler giving a lesson on how imaginary numbers don't exist to Steven Hawkins.

Merlin wrote: Stephen

Hawking

Andrew Haag wrote:The routes grade, amount of bolts, how dangerous a sport climb is, has absolutly nothing to do with what a red-point is. Just because a climb has a dangerous start doesnt change what the defenition of a red point is. Are we bringing the rock to our level or are we stepping up to the level of the rock?

Correctdamundo! A "red-point" is simple, you clip the draws and the rope, no stick clipping. Everything else is a "pink point". I will admit this might stray from Kurt Albert's original definition but what I think is important is that leading a route while placing all the draws and not stick clipping is definitely upping the ante and deserves its own exclusive moniker.
Sportos seem to be adverse to the color pink simply because pink is the color for girls and sportos are sexist pigs and could never be comfortable with anything that might decrease their manhood.
It begs the question; If sport climbing is about leading "hard" and top roping is for the weak then why all the corner cutting to bring sport climbing closer to top roping? Hmmmmm.....

Carl Sherven wrote: The only thing I've seen from this guy is belligerent personal attacks directed toward other posters. Talk about old, tired, and played out.

Ouch, did that comment about not climbing well enough to understand or contribute to the conversation sting?

Now here is an idea, if you don't want to be offended, don't participate in a troll thread. Do you really think that this is a serious topic or that any real climbers give a shit about what a beginner from Wisconsin has to say? If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. The only thing I have seen from you and your friends is a serious lack of knowledge about what climbing actually looks like in the real world. Yet you continue so shall I.

Johny Q wrote: Ouch, did that comment about not climbing well enough to understand or contribute to the conversation sting? Now here is an idea, if you don't want to be offended, don't participate in a troll thread. Do you really think that this is a serious topic or that any real climbers give a shit about what a beginner from Wisconsin has to say? If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. The only thing I have seen from you and your friends is a serious lack of knowledge about what climbing actually looks like in the real world. Yet you continue so shall I.

Oh, Johnny, you are about as subtle as a jackhammer. Let me guess... your idea of foreplay is spitting on it first, right?

There is nothing wrong with stickclipping the first bolt, or even all the bolts, on a sport route.
However, it is unethical to misreport the style of ascent, such as using the stick clip and claiming a redpoint without mentioning the use of it.

JesseT wrote: Hawking

Damn, missed that, and I shouldn't have.

redpoint has many different meanings to many different people in sport climbing. some clip the rope through the first or even more bolts, some pre-hang all the draws, some prefer to hang all draws. Some differentiate between pink vs red.

I normally don't pre-clip the first draw, but don't think that negates the redpoint.

It is sport climbing, and if you are working the route and hangdogging it until your muscle memory solves it for you, it doesn't really matter.

I'm quite happy with clean TR sends, just as I am clean lead sends.

I am more concerned with how smooth the climbing feels, like how in-sync I am with the moves. How cool headed I am and how efficiently I execute the moves. And also how fast I figure out the sequence.

What do you think is more meaningful: (1) a red-point after a handful of tries that is sloppily executed with no prehung or preclipped gear, or (2) a redpoint executed perfectly and efficiently after quite a bit of practice on prehung draws with the first bolt pre-clipped? Which is more of an accomplishment? Or course this neglects the head factor... maybe the sloppy ascent entailed some overcoming of fear, which would give it more weight as an accomplishment.

Generally redpoint just means lead the route cleanly. If the crux is preclipped, then that will make it questionable because you are not leading in the grade.

Theoretically each route would have a different difficulty grade assigned depending on the configuration of preplaced/prehung gear. So you can adjust the grade, maybe lower it by a letter or half letter for preclipped first draw if that makes you feel better about it.

Andrew Haag wrote:The routes grade, amount of bolts, how dangerous a sport climb is, has absolutly nothing to do with what a red-point is. Just because a climb has a dangerous start doesnt change what the defenition of a red point is. Are we bringing the rock to our level or are we stepping up to the level of the rock?

Didn't we bring the rock down to our level when we rappelled down it and power-drilled stainless steel studs into it at body-length intervals?