Guessing at pieces

I'm still a new trad leader and I haven't quite mastered grabbing the right piece. I'd say that I get the right piece on the first try 10% of the time and it's not unusual for me to try two or three pieces before finding the right one. It's frustrating to start feeling pumped on a juggy 5.9 because I've exhausted my energy finding gear and I make up for it by placing fewer pieces than I probably should. Any tips on how to stop sucking or does it just come with time?

You know how to get to Carnegie Hall don't ya?

Maybe practice on easier climbs till you get quicker with your gear, so that you don't get in a habit of placing too little gear.

good luck!

If it doesn't fit, take a quick look around, it might fit somewhere else. Also rack your nuts keychain style and grab the whole carabiner.

Practice on the ground at the base of the cliff. Put a sling on it and bounce test your placements.

Wear a helmet and don't look at the piece while testing it. It is not pretty if it pops out.

I rack all of my stuff the same time, every time.

It helps.

It takes time. Like someone has already said, thinking of your gear in terms of parts of your hand really helps. For me, in Camalot speak, .3 is tips, .4 is fingers, .5 is fingerstacks, .75 is ring locks, 1 is tight hands, 2 is perfect, 3 is cupped hands and 4 is fists. 5 is throwing up. Indian Creek really helped me nail all that down.

So when I see a crack I think of it in terms of how much of my hand will fit in it, and that helps me decide on gear. But I still get the wrong piece once or more per pitch, and I've been trad climbing a lot lately.

Before you even start climbing take a step back, and envision what gear you will need and where. Think to yourself as you look "alright start up the fingers section then climb into the pod, and exit into a hand crack". Simply envisioning what you will do and need on the climb will help your gear placing efficiency a lot.

As for reducing your tendency to double/triple/quadruple dip for the right size piece I always had a favorite piece of gear. Whether it be a stopper or a certain size of cam. You'll always find a place for your favorite piece, and you'll know the perfect placement when you see it. That will translate into your other pieces slowly but surely.

As far as cams go, it is also worth noting that some cam brands have a larger range than others - 9 WC friends cover the same range as 8 camalots, because each camalot has a wider useable range, for example. This is one reason that I use Camalots - I am realistically and mathematically more likely to grab the right piece on the first try.

Simon Hatfield wrote:As far as cams go, it is also worth noting that some cam brands have a larger range than others - 9 WC friends cover the same range as 8 Camalots, because each Camalot has a wider useable range, for example. This is one reason that I use Camalots - I am realistically and mathematically more likely to grab the right piece on the first try.

If this were the case we would all climb on Link Cams. Don't get me wrong, I climb almost exclusively on BD, but because I like the feel of them and they are what I learned on. I guess the added range can help a (very) little but it is most important to know YOUR gear, inside and out, and rack in a way that makes sense to you. Some people rack the same way every time but experience will teach you that reading the climb before you set out will usually determine how you will rack for that particular pitch (ex. right facing dihedral layback crack... rack your expected placements on your right side). You will most likely end up having 2 or 3 ways you rack "every time".

I would say there is a lot of good advice posted above. The hand size comparisons works well. Just get familiar with your rack. I can usually feel what cam I have in my hand by just pulling the trigger back although I have not mastered the blind selection like JohnL. It takes time and practice. I will admit, I have, in the past, had minor bouts of "Whippers". Even some of the best climbers will pull the wrong piece occasionally.

Over time your rack will be comfortable and you will pull the right cams first try but if u r like me once in a while you I'll grab a cam that is slightly to big. But I hate tiped out cams. Climb more and u will get better and i love bd and offset mastercams. They r always the right size and bomber.

So I rack my rack like this:
1 biner with BD nuts #3-9 in order
1 with random brands nuts in the same size range as the BD's in order by size
1 with like 5-7 bigger nuts
1 with my wired hex's- like 5 pieces all small
1 with all my slung hex's (1" to 3"or4")
1 with Metolius Powercams # 00,0,1
1 with cams 2,3,4
1 with cams 5,6
1 with 7,8
1 with TCU's 00,0,1
1 with TCU's 2,3,4
1 with all my Tri-Cams

Then rack trad draws that are mostly 24" slings tripled with 2-3 48"slings quadrupled.

I eyeball the size, Grab appropriate biner of gear. If piece A doesn't fit usually piece B will and its usually on the same biner. Once I have the piece in I un-clip the racking biner and put it back on my harness with the remaining gear that is still on it. Grab a trad draw, Clip top biner into piece, if I am extending the trad draw (usually) un-clip bottom biner, clip into single strand of sling, pull to extend draw (except on quad-ed 48" slings, slightly different procedure for those), clip rope. It may sound like a lot but its fast, easy, can be done with one hand, and I almost always grab the right biner (as each has a significant range of sizes of pro on it) even though I have not been climbing trad that long.

OH and eyeball route from ground and decide what gear you will need and leave the rest on the ground (but still carry 1-3 cams of sizes you don't think you will need just in case like small cams/TCU's (2 or 3) if climbing big or big cam(s)(1)if climbing small).

in combination with the equation of pieces to hand/finger sizes, you can practice around the house.

how big is the gap between the fridge and the wall beside it? a tight hand width? what pieces fit in there? how about the space between cupboard doors? tight fingers? what pieces will fit there?

i still have plenty of room to improve the efficiency of my placements but placing gear around the house has helped quite a bit.

it's helped me in a couple ways. first, it helps with memorization of the piece to hand/finger size relationship. and, i've become better at eyeballing the right size.

Simon Hatfield wrote:As far as cams go, it is also worth noting that some cam brands have a larger range than others - 9 WC friends cover the same range as 8 camalots, because each camalot has a wider useable range, for example. This is one reason that I use Camalots - I am realistically and mathematically more likely to grab the right piece on the first try.

The listed range in the technical specs makes it seem like camalots have a lot wider range than other cams. They do have a bigger range, but the actual usable range is barely more than other cams.

Aid Climbing = massive amounts of practice with placing gear

Seriously, do some easy clean aid, each solid pitch of aid climbing will have you setting 20 pieces or more. Pick a nice, uncrowded vertical to slightly steeper crack and get at it. You can do it solo with a solid ground anchor (I first belayed myself with a clove hitch and backup knots) or on TR. It will get you 1) much quicker at placements due to plenty of pure practice 2) get you used to all the intricacies of placement without the added factor of hanging on 3) you'll learn how solid your placements are with bounce testing.

Obviously many find it dull, but you may find it fun and it isn't a bad skill to have.

+1 on doing some aid pitches.

Austin, three things:
(1) Which sizes do you have the most trouble with? And is it predominantly nuts or cams?

(2) Are you scoping out good stances and good placements ahead of time? This saves a lot of energy.

When you have a good stance, place gear. Look up and anticipate the next few placements. If I can see what I think will be the crux and it looks like it might be pumpy to place gear there, I take a moment to move the piece that I think will go there to the front of my rack. Then I move the next piece smaller and the next piece bigger to the front also. I only do this when it looks like that placement will be pumpy, or blind, etc. Otherwise I keep stuff sorted. I don't bother to put the pieces back in order though; instead I just keep track of it in my head.

(3) It is great to lead close to your limit, don't stop doing that. But you can also take a day to try to do a TON of pitches far below your limit. Focus on placing lots of gear, quickly. Time yourself with both the lead and building an anchor (or have a partner time you).

This may sound obvious, but in addition to finding the right gear you also need to be able to find the right placement. Beginners often spend a lot of time and energy fiddling with gear in marginal placements. Sometimes you need to recognize that a given crack just isn't going to work well and that you'd be better off with a different placement.

If you can't find that piece right off the bat, grab your crotch instead. Then JUMP.

johnL wrote: I'd rather blow Ron Jeremy before racking like that.

and you wanted your stuff on the knob cleaned out by the mods over there.

Edit: gahdammit! how do you make the strike-through feature work over here?!?! What kind of uncivilized site are you guys running anyway? >:(

It should have read: and you wanted your knob cleaned by the mods over there.

johnL wrote: I'd rather blow Ron Jeremy before racking like that.

but think of the booty potential! 3-4 cams falling from the sky when he fumbles with all that crap :)