has anyone done the insanity workouts along with training for climbing

Just curious if anyone has done the insanity workout and what they thought. Figure would be a great way to lose some weight, but at the same time if it's going to leave me so drained I cant train climbing at the same time not sure if it's worth it?

My buddy did it and loved it. He was fine to do the workout and climb. One thing to note though, if you have any joint issues I would be careful. It has a lot of repetitive movements that can flare up wrist, elbow, should issues.

Why is it that general fitness is suddenly such a friggin' mystery that we need exotic "insanity" workouts and "XR4TI", "Crossfit"?

Fitness is simple: Stop eating at McDonald's et al, eat food that looks like food, watch less TV, get your a$$ off the sofa and get 30 minutes of cardio at least 5 days a week. This advice is free and it works.

I agree with Mike A. It is difficult to keep tabs on how your body is taking some of the more serious workout plans because your usually sore. I am an older climber though so intense training might work for some, but I think it is far better to do light weights, cardio and go out and climb hard on your climbing days: be sure to stay hydrated and eat throughout the day. Rest if you start the diminishing returns cycle and do some fun easy cool downs. If you want to go for an intense program I would not suggest trying it when the season is just starting to get going and an injury would ruin your summer--which, trust me, is a real drag.

IF you've already taken Mike's advice and are pretty fit but looking for something more, then the muscle confusion stuff is a pretty good way to get in better shape. But in general, most of us are lacking on one or more areas of physical fitness.

At the moment my cardio is crap. I was always a runner and I don't have much weight to carry around so I can usually get up and do a long run off the couch but for me that doesn't mean I'm in good shape. It doesn't affect my climbing all that much, but I suppose that it would be sort of a waste of time for me to do the insanity workouts w/o getting my cardio endurance up first.

Mike Anderson wrote:Why is it that general fitness is suddenly such a friggin' mystery that we need exotic "insanity" workouts and "XR4TI", "Crossfit"? Fitness is simple: Stop eating at McDonald's et al, eat food that looks like food, watch less TV, get your a$$ off the sofa and get 30 minutes of cardio at least 5 days a week. This advice is free and it works.

Now, I am not personally "advocating" Crossfit, P90X, or anything else, but these workouts offer a lot more structure with specific benchmarks and progression in exercises for the average person than your advice does, Mike. (I say this as a person who has worked in the fitness field for a while and gotten a feel for success and failure case studies).

And, unless a person is really doing high intensity training for those 30 minutes five days a week, this type of plan will not offer much in terms of getting someone truly fit but rather just somewhat healthier. Training to be fit and exercising for improved health aren't really the same thing. I have trained a lot of people who had a hard time grasping this.

To the OP: I haven't done Insanity or known anyone who has, but all training is "tweakable" and you should consider the fact that you have the power to try it and then adjust intensity/frequency/duration as needed to work around your climbing training as well.

Fitness is somewhat simple - if you're young and healthy. Athletic Development is not quite as simple. Many different parameters and individual variances.

I'm quite intrigued why everyone is so enamored with "muscle confusion"? Let's try this: play several weeks of tennis, then try that hard compression crux on your project. That should work according to muscle confusion; do something completely opposite of what you're trying to improve to advance a skill? That's confusing.

A staple in athletic performance is creating neural patterns that perfect motion. A staple in strength and conditioning is super-compensating the musculature that is the prime mover in sporting events.

Looks more like a Touch of DAB in CO, cause your foot is on the ground, d00d.

That's pretty damn funny. I'll weigh in here since, like 90X, this is another one of our products that I helped develop. As most of you pointed out it has nothing to do with helping you climb better unless you happen to lack general fitness and need to lose weight. 90X was not designed with climbing in mind, either, but at least it has some application. Insanity really has nothing except general conditioning and, even then, you'd be better suited to do different types of exercise because you're going to gain my leg muscle mass with all the plyo in this program than you need/want to climb your best.

Here's a comment made by a 5.14/15 climbers who trains locally at an "elite" training facility--should add he trains there for fun as climbing isn't his main target any longer.

Q: Does it help your climbing?

A: Maybe when you're maxed on a route and you've got to push through a pain barrier it helps mentally because that's what you do in every workout. But does it help me specifically be stronger on the rock? No.

That about sums up any general conditioning program you can do.

That said, we are launching two new programs this year that will be more applicible to climbing than anything we've done. This is simply because they are more targeted to specific athletic goals than what we've offered before. I've been reviewing both during their development on my blog and, later this year as my own targets turn towards rock I'll be commenting more on their specific effectiveness for climbing.

The Straight Dope

Aerili wrote: Now, I am not personally "advocating" Crossfit, P90X, or anything else, but these workouts offer a lot more structure with specific benchmarks and progression in exercises for the average person than your advice does, Mike. (I say this as a person who has worked in the fitness field for a while and gotten a feel for success and failure case studies). And, unless a person is really doing high intensity training for those 30 minutes five days a week, this type of plan will not offer much in terms of getting someone truly fit but rather just somewhat healthier. Training to be fit and exercising for improved health aren't really the same thing. I have trained a lot of people who had a hard time grasping this. To the OP: I haven't done Insanity or known anyone who has, but all training is "tweakable" and you should consider the fact that you have the power to try it and then adjust intensity/frequency/duration as needed to work around your climbing training as well.

Aerili, I welcome your opinion, but disagree with it. The OP is asking for some "general fitness" work to go along with climbing. For that narrow requirement, I believe what I offered is better than anything else mentioned. The other training programs you mention will siphon training time and energy away from climbing while adding weight where you don't need it.

I'm glad you mentiond "specific benchmarks and progression in exercises..." This is exactly the problem in that it focuses the athlete on feats of strength that are at best unrelated to climbing, and possibly counterproductive. Doing squats for general fitness is fine with me, if that's what you are into, but trying to improve at squats is a very bad idea, if you want to get better at extreme rock climbing.

Mike Anderson wrote: it focuses the athlete on feats of strength

At least you'll be ready for Festivus. Thanks for airing your grievance Mr. Anderson.

I'm in agreement with Mike and the Compressing Dabber. The question is do you want to train for rockclimbing performance or do you want to be fit for general athletic performance. Either choice will mean a sacrifice in the other.

No slight intended toward the OP, but when I was at your level, my focus was racking up as much mileage on real rock as possible...routes during most of the year and a couple of periods of bouldering during the year. Pacing, technique, mental aspects, tactics, feel, ability to eyeball gear placements and place quickly, ...all sorts of things are probably as limiting or more limiting than your strength at that stage of the game.

I'm actually employed as a Crossfit trainer. Unless you're really out of shape, CF and its kind won't really help you climb any better. It might help you with alpine hardiness or some other less tangible benefit like that, but it probably won't add any letter grades to your ability unless you're currently struggling on 5.8. It could, however, get you climbing a letter grade lower if it takes away from climbing time or adds muscle mass where you don't want it. On the flip side, it might make you better able to do other stuff with more ability. It can increase coordination and give you a more well-rounded skill/ability set.

I could onsight up to about .11b trad the year before I started CF. Now three years later, it's more like .11a. But I can now run way faster, pick up heavy things more easily, and my wife and I just got 1st Place the Coed division at the USMC Mud Run in Columbia, SC. That kind of thing is worth it for me. I also now have the confidence in my speed and skills to go try my hand at bigger objectives. We're gonna go sit in the snow below the North Face of Robson for two weeks in August waiting on a weather window. I wouldn't have ever considered actually going and doing something like that without what I've put myself through in CF. So I guess my advice is to figure out what your real goals are. If you are overweight, I say go for it. Do some kind of fitness program that keeps you interested so that you stick with it.

Mike Anderson wrote: Aerili, I welcome your opinion, but disagree with it. The OP is asking for some "general fitness" work to go along with climbing. For that narrow requirement, I believe what I offered is better than anything else mentioned. The other training programs you mention will siphon training time and energy away from climbing while adding weight where you don't need it. I'm glad you mentiond "specific benchmarks and progression in exercises..." This is exactly the problem in that it focuses the athlete on feats of strength that are at best unrelated to climbing, and possibly counterproductive. Doing squats for general fitness is fine with me, if that's what you are into, but trying to improve at squats is a very bad idea, if you want to get better at extreme rock climbing.

Crossfit (and most of those programs) are extremely general. They offer general fitness in the highest sense of the word.

For someone with no other guidance and who wants to lose weight as well, they will probably be more effective than doing 30 minutes of whatever random cardio an individual usually comes up with on their own.

I have a pretty good window into what people do when left to their own devices, having spent many years of my working life in a gym.

When I said, "benchmarks and progression of exercises," I did not mean "train to do squats better." I meant that it gives people a guideline to increase their general fitness when they do not otherwise know how. Most people do not have a clear plan of how to increase their general fitness after an initial four weeks. Or, they often pursue the "more is better" mindset in the single given activity they enjoy/have taken up and end up injured after a while. No one said you have to do the program just for the program's sake; it can be tailored (as I said in my first post) to support your climbing training. You just have to make your climbing training your priority and ensure you do not drain yourself with supplemental stuff, regardless of whatever supplemental stuff you choose to do.

I have a partner who is a 5.12/13 trad climber who does Crossfit religiously. Clearly, you can use these types of programs to stay generally fit and not skew yourself into training for things which do not help your climbing.

I will state for the record I am not a koolaid drinker or anything else of that nature. Just trying to stay objective about it all.

Edit: I am not in any way saying to not climb more to improve climbing, but the OP did not state he just wants to train to climb better, either.

I am not a trainer or an expert by any means but I will say from experience: Cardio work helps me recover quicker on climbs which in the long run improves my ability to get a better workout while I climb. Too much running in addition to climbing taxes my body to the point where I am prone to injury. I have also noticed that doing light weights works has stabilized the areas that are prone to injury, it also seems to support the engaged muscles and tendons and perhaps ease their fatigue. On the other hand, I found that intense weights aggravate joint issues during the climbing season. What I did not clearly articulate earlier is that the light extracurricular non-climbing activities I was suggesting are a good way to support where the real training can happen--for me anyway--which is on the rock. In my experience a good training programs should consider the balance between frequency of climbing and your bodies ability to recover afterword, with using targeted tools that can also require significant recovery.