Leaving the Bermuda Triangle AKA another Thailand Thread

Friends of mine of FB are already aware of this but many people I climb with post here so this is an easy way to get this to a lot of people rather than a whole bunch of emails. The climbing wall in Bermuda is going out of business, and by that, I mean the owner is quitting, not that we were losing money. What that means is that I'll be moving back. I'd be extremely happy to never have to deal with the childish antics of the owner again if it didn't mean that all the kids and our entire little community was losing the only wall here as a result.

First stop is Denver where I'll spend the holidays with my family. After that, it's up in the air.

I've got to say, I've got little to no interest in ice this winter and have no interest in vertical front range climbing. As such, I won't be in CO much past the new year.

There is an OK (not great, not bad) chance that I'll be able to move back to Bermy in 3 months time with either a different job or as the business owner of the climbing wall. I won't be looking seriously for a job until April, when I'm completely sure of my future status on the island.

Ideas? Here are mine, insert yours.

Buy a Previa, take out the seats, spend the winter climbing the VRG and Hurricave. Once the weather warms up, Zion. This would satisfy my lust for steep sport and long routes. I have no idea if I'd have partners 4-5 days a week though and I don't want to sit around.

Go to Thailand and climb until late Feb and return in time for Zion and Moab in the spring. $1500 ticket (unless priceline does better) and I'm unsure of local travel costs, housing, food, and visa's. I don't know a single Thai word. I'd still probably have to buy a Previa when I get back.

Sport Climbing in Spain. Looks like a dream and I'll at least be below average at the language. I'll probably fall in love with a gorgeous Spanish sport climber, thus negating my need to move back and buy a Previa. I don't know if winter is the season though or what my prices are.

Sooo, who wants to puke on a pedicab on NYE?

Given your three options, why not consider Potrero. Lot's of steep sport and long routes, no problem finding climbing partners, the cost to get there and to stay is VERY low. YMMV, but the last time I was there there were a lot of cool folks staying long-term and the "scene" was pretty cool.

You don't need to know any Thai to go to Thailand. However, if your goal is to get better at sport climbing, I don't think that is the most effective place to do so.

Spain is sick, but expensive. Rodellar will be shut down, but Siurana will be primo (not very steep though). I assume the southern Costa Blanca areas will be good.

For domestic climbing, I think you have the right idea. Sinks is also worth investigating starting ~ early March.

Have you considered Australia? The Grampians, Blue Mtns & Nowra are all very steep, ala RRG. Its summer there now. Expensive to get there, but no more expensive than the US once you're there. You will need a few Gs to buy a car, but that's easy to do, and easy to re-coup your investment when you leave. Visas are not a problem for any of these places.

btw, that's an incredible profile pic. Hilarious!

I just want to see a botched deportation resulting in a slow speed scooter chase on CNN through the Bermuda hinterland.

Sorry to hear about the climbing wall John. I know you were psyched on the community there... owner did seem a bit quirky when I talked to him about the job years ago. Hope things work out there.

Def. email me if you decide to go to Thailand... I'll send you to the newer/better/cheaper areas so you don't have to deal with Tonsai gumby madness! Also my good friend Wayne will be there from Jan 1 to mid-March looking for a partner. I think you met him at the Red a few years back when I "broke" that girl's Alien.

Wish I could offer you a place to stay as you did when I was thinking of heading to Bermuda... but I won't be back in Thailand this year. I can offer you some work though if you're interested. Everything from TRing gumbies to DWS trips to guiding people up towers.

Take care man!

johnL wrote:Go to Thailand and climb until late Feb and return in time for Zion and Moab in the spring... I don't know a single Thai word.

Kratoy.

That's all you need to know.

johnL wrote:Along the same line of thinking, what are the logistics from the Krabi area to Yangshuo, travel wise.

Check AirChina. They have "last minute" deals frequently - where you're buying 2-3 weeks ahead of time. I flew from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur for like $35. When I was trying to get to Yangshuo the tickets were very expensive (BKK to Guilin) but while I was there I came across a ticket for like $100. It'd practically pay for itself in the money and hassle to go from Hong Kong, into Guangzhou, and then down to Guilin. I believe Guangzhou also has an airport, but if you need to get a Visa then HK is a good place. For the record, I got my China visa in Bangkok.

johnL wrote: Also on Thailand, why wouldn't I get any better there, they just have to have routes that I can push myself on. I'm a steep route n00b, I want to climb as many routes at just above my onsight limit as possible. I jumped the shark a bit this year from projecting. This has left me stronger than I've ever been and VERY unconsolidated in my abilities.

To clarify, I said "not the most effective place".

But to your point, its hard to really explain, but consider the difference in training facilities from Rocky to Rocky III. Tonsai is a vacation crag. The climbing is fantastic, i.e., of a fantasy; not "real" climing. Its fun, theres a bar 30 feet from the cliff, pretty girls in bikinis & music playing, just like in R3 before he gets beat-down by Clubber Lang. Compare that to the VRG: sharp holds, legit bolt spacing, red-point conditions (cold), depressing, "serious" in the sense that its about performance more than fun. If you want to get something done at the VRG, you're gonna have to work for it: you will need to have your head together, your skin in order, warm up in the cold, probably numb-out on a daily basis, etc. Sorta like drinking a glass full of raw eggs and tenderizing carcasses with your bare hands in a freezing meat locker. Perhaps a better mental space if your goal is to go the distance with Creed.

Oh ya, a lot of people will pop into Cambodia or Laos for a few days to re-new their visa. There is apparently good limestone in Laos.

I'll be around if you want to climb ~ christmas, but I'm not much of a partier. I'll be asleep by 11pm NYE.

Monomaniac wrote: Tonsai is a vacation crag. The climbing is fantastic, i.e., of a fantasy; not "real" climing. Its fun, theres a bar 30 feet from the cliff, pretty girls in bikinis & music playing,

How is fun climbing with a bar 30 feet from the cliffs and dancing bikini girls not "real" climbing? You need to reassess your priorities.

+1 on the limestone in Laos. Though if you've never been it's worth the trip to Angkor while in the area.

Yangshuo will be way cold during the winter. Quite a few more degrees of latitude north. Jan-Feb is not the time of year to go there or to HaLong Bay, Vietnam. Laos is a perfect diversion. Same with some sectors in Malaysia, if you are going there for a visa renewal as well.

Well, I know a few local climbers from St. George who are looking to break into the .13's this winter by climbing in the VRG, they'll be climbing there often. I know there are people looking for roommates (at $2-300/month) who also climb. And lots of people here with no jobs/funky schedules with lots of free time. VRG is a great training ground for long and steep sport climbing.

Come hang out in Southern Utah and tell us stories of Thailand, so we can decide to work less and travel more.

It isn't a bad place to spend the winter, though it isn't going to offer hot Spanish girls, tourists in bikinis, or bars on the beach.

Ryan Kelly wrote: Kratoy. That's all you need to know.

...Nice personality anyway...

My 2 cents.... The main wall at the VRG is not that steep, if that's really what you're into. There are a couple cave routes on the right side, but they'll only last you a week or two at the most. The Cathedral might keep you busy a little longer, but it's not really that steep either unless you're climbing 14b or c. I'm not sure about the Hurricave....

The Fossil Cave in the VRG looks really sick...I hiked up there once, but in all the time I spent at the VRG, I never heard of anyone climbing there, so it might be tough to get partners. I think the VRG would be climbable through March if you were on the steep, juggy routes and not the techy sharp crimp-fests.

I've seen pictures of stuff in Nevada that might fit the bill, but I don't know any details.

johnL wrote:Thanks for the ideas guys. A couple points questions/thoughts. EPC from the looks of it isn't steep at all. At this juncture in my life, if the route is less than 30 degrees overhung, I'd rather go climb a crack. Looks fun there though. For Thailand, wouldn't the shitshow noobfest of Tonsai be somewhat of the point? Especially if I don't have partners? It's so steep everywhere too. Also on Thailand, why wouldn't I get any better there, they just have to have routes that I can push myself on. I'm a steep route n00b, I want to climb as many routes at just above my onsight limit as possible. I jumped the shark a bit this year from projecting. This has left me stronger than I've ever been and VERY unconsolidated in my abilities. Again on Thailand, 30 days if you don't apply for a visa? If I left and went to Yangshuo for a while and came back will I get another 30 days. Along the same line of thinking, what are the logistics from the Krabi area to Yangshuo, travel wise. Spain, the place just calls for me but I might save it until I'm gainfully employed. Southern UT looks so good and I've got people I can shower and do laundry with and climb trad when I want back to my roots. However attractive, it just doesn't hold the appeal of far away. And seriously, I want to pass out twice on NYE. Who's in?

EPC is Cheap... not steep.

It is nice in Tonsai to have a lot of people around... but a lot of the people you meet there are real beginners... like the kind that you don't want belaying you. The trick is to find a partner and get some good climbing done, then see the better areas. Tonsai is convenient and there is amazing climbing everywhere, but it's pretty well polished and there are just too many people around for me.

Laos kicks ass, especially the stuff north of Vang Vieng.

Anyways, I'm about to reply to your email, dunno why I'm writing here...

Man, that looks super rad!!