Route Poaching?

So, I was climbing at a popular sport climbing area on the Sierra Eastside yesterday when I unwittingly ran into this scenario: Two or three groups were lounging at the base of a wall packed with easy routes. A couple was busy yakking away on their cell phones and discussing the fine points of expensive wines while sitting about 15 feet away from a coiled rope near the base of the wall. I took my time putting on my harness and shoes, racked some draws, tied in and started up a route. While clipping the third bolt, I was startled by someone shouting: Hey you G*DDA&% POACHER! We were about to do that route!! This was followed by more derogatory comments from both of the cell phoners. My question: Do I now need to wait for folks to get off the phone and then ask everyone which routes they plan on climbing and when, when they are all hanging out and none are even wearing harnesses?

Well obviously. I bet you didn't put your name on the sign up list either.

Jesus. Smash the god damn cell phones, THEN ask whether they are about to get on said route. God I hate people talking on cell phones. Go back to the city.

Seriously though, I think it is polite to ask if someone is about to get on a route. That said, if you are taking and not climbing, AND not making an effort to get on the climb (not even wearing harnesses) then tough shit. It took them until you were clipping the third bolt to notice for christ sake. Not only that, but instead of nicely pointing out your potential wrongdoing, they berated you. That smells of self righteous and self centered behavior to me. Next time, bust out your biggest hex, clip it to a 4 foot and start swingin'.

Sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience. Hopefully your day got better after that.
Cheers.

Of course not. Never forget that climbing is a fringe activity for psychotic weirdos. If the country club crowd & the local boy scout troop can't handle it, maybe they should go play tennis, or some other sport where rules of ettiquette apply.

On the other hand, it probably wasn't very much fun climbing there after that exchange. If you're interested in preserving the mellow crag vibe, it probably would have been best to ask if anyone's planning to get on the route when you first arrived. That's what I try to do when I'm with my wife and I don't want to ruin her day.

I'd say they are the poachers for setting their gear at the bottom of the climb and then dicking around and not climbing. Most 'respectable' climbers wouldn't mind, obviously they were in no hurry... F*#k 'em!!!!

"The route or your girl. You can't have both"

Monomaniac wrote:Never forget that climbing is a fringe activity for psychotic weirdos.

Yes! So good to hear someone else advocate my theory. Can you believe it, some climbers actually aren't convinced?!

Everyone else at the crag looked at them in disbelief. I told them that "Since you guys were sitting under a route a line or two to the left, it looked like you were thinking about doing that one". The guy looked up the bolt line of the 3 star 5.8 they were sitting under and commented to his partner "well, if I fall and get hurt it's all that guy's fault". They did the 5.8 route and wandered off. More people showed up soon after that and we all had a fun time climbing, b.s.ing and sharing route info. In the end it didn't ruin our day but sheesh, everyone who climbs at this wall knows there will be crowds this time of year and these routes take all of about 10 minutes to do...

My favorite personl, "Hey, I'm in line" story involves walking up to Levetation 29 with 3 others planning on climbing as 2 parties of 2 and having someone who was starting the process of rappeling Eagle Dance yell down to us that they were "in-line". Are you nuts, how can you be in-line for a route and 3-5 pitches off the ground on another? I actually get along with the guy now and his partner thought the whole thing was hillarious, but I've never climbed the first 2 pitches of Levetation faster.

Those guys sound like complete rookies....don't they know the real use of hands-free headsets is so your partner can belay you while talking on the phone, eating a snack, and checking the guidebook at the same time.

When people give me lip at the crags I like to show them the real use for a #4 camalot....just make sure you don't take someones eye out as that gets messy.

if you think a #4 camalot is intimidating, try whipping out a pair of 9mm 's, if you know what i mean.

Tough one to call. I guess I'd make some gestures at the routes and sign somehow of my intent and see if tht drew a rise. If not, I'd climb it. If so, I'd exepct a discussion of when they thought they'd be done. If htey can't put hte phone down for a second for that, then obviously it's not a priority for them and it's all yours.

I've sat beside cell-phone wine people and cell-phone 'idea people' in Cali a few times in airports. I get the general imprssion that htey are really talking to impress the people around them and hardly even to the other person on the phone, who I imagine has a pretty similar goal on the other end of that phone.

Now who can imagine such a person being so self-centered. Not suprised, but still disappointed. It goes on all day every day for some folks.

Joseffa and I asked a guy sitting at the base of a climb what his intent was in Vedauvoo. He said he wanted to climb it. She asked where his partner was. He said coming. She asked when. He said he didn't know. We said we'd like to do the route, he more or less instructed us not to. You can imagine, we went to go do something a few routes over, but were not too happy about it. He kept at us about our attitude and all, and said "It doesn't have to be that way, you know," Jo replied something to the effect of ,"It didn't- but that was your choice... whatever." We were pretty much done with our climb by the time the partner arrived. Anyway, the guy still thought that we put him out quite a bit. Again, whatever. I guess throwing the rope at teh base of a climb grants some entitlement? I dunno.

oh, slim, you're soo big

I think they were trying to impress someone, maybe each other. The girl was yakking about being an alcoholic because she dreams at night about drinking. The guy took 2 or three calls while I was gearing up and was loudly expressing that he was in the "middle" of climbing a route. I guess that's why I thought he was going to climb the route he was leaning against. When they did get on the rock the girl's phone kept ringing and ringing and ringing....I wasn't trying to listen in but you could hear them from 30 feet away...

Rick Shull wrote:I think they were trying to impress someone, maybe each other. The girl was yakking about being an alcoholic because she dreams at night about drinking. The guy took 2 or three calls while I was gearing up and was loudly expressing that he was in the "middle" of climbing a route. I guess that's why I thought he was going to climb the route he was leaning against. When they did get on the rock the girl's phone kept ringing and ringing and ringing....I wasn't trying to listen in but you could hear them from 30 feet away...

Too bad phasers don't exist. They sound like candidates for sending them the 25th dimension. What total putzes. People doing that need that cell phone implanted up their asses.

I see this all the time. It's usually a bunch of new climbers who don't have a clue about climbing manners.

French's Dome is by far the worst place around Portland for this sort of behavior (and because of it, I've stopped going there on weekends). A group of 5 or 6 people with a ton of shiny new gear from REI will be gang-banging a 5.9 with their draws hanging on an adjacent 5.10, but when I start up the 5.10 for a warmup I get the "Hey, we were going to do that one next" line.

If you're not actively climbing/working/preparing for a route, it's not "yours" to claim.

yeah, you know it buffster!

back on topic. a friend and i hiked in to do 'crimson chrysallis' at red rocks about 10 years ago. we made it to the base really early and there were 3 guys sleeping there in sleeping bags. we get racked up and hear somebody say, "hey, we're doing that route, show some respect". we basically told them what they could do with themselves. we get a few pitches up and watch them epic on the first pitch forever and finally bail.

i've seen this mentality quite a bit, particularly at indian creek, where somebody dumps there stuff within 50 feet of a route, disappears for an hour, and then comes back wondering why somebody stole their route. you're either on it, or you are not.

Slim nailed it. Agreed.

I'm probably not anywhere near the best climber on the planet, but I love a good 5.9 gang-bang as much as the next guy.

Mark that's stupid. How would you know where Sharma is? Maybe you are near him.

Climbs with a two plus mile approach will eliminate most of these issues. For the most part the people you are out there with typically have some level of respect for other climbers, and cell phones rarely work.

I was recently in Vedauwoo and a group of about 6 had TR's up on all the climbs at that specific rock (about 10 TR's). What really pissed me off was when someone in the group wanted to climb the route they would pull the rope then lead the climb, then they would lower and leave the TR so the route was in use by them because their rope was on it. When my partner and I walked up to the route we wanted to climb someone from the group ran over and asked us "can't you see we have a rope on this route?".

We just moved on, as it wasn't worth the hassle. In this instance it was okay because Vedauwoo is huge, some of the smaller crags this issue is a lot more common.