"top ten sandbags of the west"

I once had heard an "all around" climber say that the crux chimney of Epi would be rated 5.7 in "The Valley" Is this true?

How about Kor's Flake at Lumpy as the toughest 5.7 I have climbed.

Ken or Chas,

From a CO perspective: I disagree with you on Osiris. I'd say Umph Slot deserves a spot. I challenge any adult 5.10 climber to onsight it. Crack of Fear should be on the list. It even makes Pat Ament smile talking about it. Wolf's Tooth (8), Kor's Flake (7), & Stettner's Ledges (7) deserve honorable mention.

P.S. there's a move above the huge chickenhead on the 3rd that can be 5.4, no positive hand/foothold for a move.

Mike Epke wrote:How about Kor's Flake at Lumpy as the toughest 5.7 I have climbed.

I thought the same thing about Kor's.. Not so much tough as the exposure for me.. Excellent climb though. : )

Gigette Miller wrote:I once had heard an "all around" climber say that the crux chimney of Epi would be rated 5.7 in "The Valley" Is this true?

Probably so, as it's easy at the grade. But it would be a 5.5 in Zion. (chuckle)

But if you go to the back and climb the slot, its a LOT harder.

Mike Epke wrote:How about Kor's Flake at Lumpy as the toughest 5.7 I have climbed.

Yep, and WAY WAY harder than Osiris.

The first time I did Kor's Flake, I was sore for days because of the long stretch of unprotected offwidth. The next time I lead it I had a Big Dude that I walked. With protection, the off width was dispensed and laybacking and face climbing made it a breeze.

Lower Slot on the Nautilus at Vedauwoo has my vote for TSOTW. Rated 5.6 in the old guide book, it can feel like 5.9 without proper offwidth technique.

I thought Osiris was a little sandbagged, but I thought the sandbagged pitches were the 5.6 first pitch, which I thought was the crux, and, to a lesser extent, the 5.5 second pitch. The 5.7 pitches were straightforward and I agree with the grading.

Then again, my perspective could be skewed by my frustration at having a large chunk of ankle skin taken by the first pitch on two seperate dates.

theREALangry,

You are the first person I have ever corresponded with who used the word easy while describing an ascent of Fantasia in Vedawoo.

Are you and Luebben buddies?

I agreed with Osiris not being a sandbag and I mentioned that most Kor's routes are rated stiffer in an earlier post so I'm wondering now if I had really bad day when I climbed it or if I'm crazy.

Oh yeah, I am crazy, never mind.

Jimn Seiler wrote:theREALangry, You are the first person I have ever corresponded with who used the word easy while describing an ascent of Fantasia in Vedawoo.

Actually, I think pulling into the crack at the bottom is the hardest part. After you get into the crack the climb becomes a link up of monotonous moves to say the least. You move 6inches and you understand how the rest of the climb goes. Not so much over-graded in my eyes, but over-rated.

Handtruck,

I agree with you that the bottom sequences are harder, I also found it very difficult 2/3rds to 3/4ers of the way up. I am not a great off-width climber so this could of been due to fatigue physically. I only did this climb once so I am by no means an expert and I very well could of had a bad day. I will also state that I do not intend on doing that climb again so I guess I also agree that it is over rated. Still that was harder for me than any 5.9 I have ever done.

I just thought of another climb that I think may have been sandbagged. On Lumpy there is a small one pitch climb on the Little Twin Owls. The route I did I believe was called Undercling Right and was a 5.8. It sure seemed harder than that. Does anyone else have an opinion on that?

Yeah, I forgot all about it till now, but the Canadian Rockies are in the west too… Anyone ever get caught up in Sean Dougherty’s “Selected, er Sandbags in the Canadian Rockies.”? Have to say that I admit bivying (unplanned) on more grade IV climbs than I would like to admit…;-) However, the single pitch of most sandbagged stone I ever encountered was the crux pitch, high up on the Greenwood/Jones route on the north face of Mt. Temple (in Lake Louise). I believe it is given a paltry 5.8 A0 in the guide book, but in reality turns out to be honest 5.10 S/VS climbing above a single fixed pin that lasts for half rope length. Thank God my partner got that lead (with boots and a pack too). I found him dry heaving at a “Spencer Tracy” belay on a gravel ledge, and bummed him a cigarette to improve his spirits. Trouble is with some of these longer routes on that type of stone is that there is basically no retreat and you kind of have to do the moves.

If we are talking "sand bag" and not just a personal difference of opinion regarding the grade of any particular route then the all time winner of top sand bags has to be OOmph slot in Boulder canyon. Don't believe me, go do it. What do you have to lose it is only 5.8.

Oomph slot gets my vote. Kor's flake shouldn't even be discussed as a sandbag.

nothing in salt lake is sandbagged.

tenesmus wrote:nothing in salt lake is sandbagged.

No, but some "+" sure would help.

The 5.9 pitch on Tulgey Wood at Devil's Tower regularly shuts down folks who shouldn't have a problem on 5.9.
Nate

Nick Stayner wrote:Will anyone console my hurt ego by calling Double Cracks in the City of Rocks a sandbag at .10a?? While we're in the City, how about Stan's Roof, also ".10a"?

double cracks= 10c for grease factor= sandbag

tenesmus wrote:nothing in salt lake is sandbagged.

In general I agree but.....
Try firestarter (offwitdth) on burner butress ( 5.9). I give first 8 feet /5.10+5.11. The burner (5.10) (offwidth) on the same butress is truly 5.10 as a comparision and one of the best offwidths in LCC.

Jimn Seiler wrote:theREALangry, You are the first person I have ever corresponded with who used the word easy while describing an ascent of Fantasia in Vedawoo.

My OW technique isn't great, but it doenst totally blow, and I thought Fantasia was pretty tough for the rating. As for WHERE it is hard, I thought the start was the crux, and getting above the really wide too big for cams spot was tough too. Then again, it was my first time at the Voo, and I have been told you need to get a feel for it. I wouldn't submit this as a huge sandbag though.

I am not sure what I would vote for, the S.Platte has some real hooters though. I think the problem for me starts when trying to decide whether a route or area is actually sandbagged, as the Umph Slot is reputed to be, or if it is just stout. As in, I think as a whole, the Platte has some pretty stout ratings but not everything is sandbagged.

I thought that North Overhang on intersection rock was pretty frickin hard, even if the business section was short.