Thoughts on removing bushes from cracks

The Locnar wrote:

A bush seems to lose a bit of value to me when it's away from all other bushes, up on a rock somewhere.

Sounds like you're looking for validation more than anything else, especially a contrarian opinion such as Cherokee's. 

The Locnar wrote:

I'm talking about full bush. There was a multipitch sport route in particular where the 1st bolt of the second pitch was behind 2 man sized bushes growing out of a crack on the right, making it nearly impossible to climb. My shoes filled with dirt and twigs as my partner fought his way through them.

OMG  the horror! It’s almost like an actual adventure rather than the gym!

The cimb would have been much more fun and safe without them.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Now to me, its opposite. That lonely bush, by dint of its location, might otherwise live to be hundreds of years old, far older than its cousins down below.

Anyway, I'm mainly planting the idea that some diminutive bush blocking your way could easily be 50, 100 years old. Think about killing something that is 100 years old, next time you break out the pruning saw. Maybe trim a branch, instead. Or (shuddder) tough it out through the bush, now how about that?

You make a good point there, I'll take that into account next time I see some bush in a crack.

Right on Locnar, may good climbing grace your tomorrows!

As grasses and bushes and flowers are removed from cliffs the localized environment becomes drier (PNW & “back East” maybe different) a disturbing trend I’ve seen recently. Modernization is not moderation.

A little dew drizzle down the cliffs feeding the ecosystem is a nice part of the climbs. Desertification has been a human problem for eons.

“Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow; 

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.”

The Locnar wrote:

A climber seems to lose a bit of value to me when it's away from all other climbers, up on a rock somewhere.

I fixed your logic for you to point out the irony. You're welcome.

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

Are we talking a bit of lichen/moss and some small plants? Or full on bushes on the route that you have to climb around rather than being able to step/climb right over them? I climb at Tahquitz often so I encounter both regularly. 

If it's the former, garden away and clean it out. If it's the latter, I personally don't think it's cool to pull out a whole bush or chop anything down. Curious to hear what others think. 

This is definitely a southern california take. It depends on how sensitive the ecosystem is. In the PNW, almost everything we climb used to have bushes in it. If this was in the desert? Absolutely inexcusable. In a rainforest? It doesn't matter unless we are talking about massive old trees. Anything else will grow back in a season or two.

This is an excellent topic. There is no right answer. A great case has been made for “it depends”.

What hasn’t been highlighted enough is how memorable a tree or a bush can make a pitch. I can’t even estimate how many pitches I’ve done in my time as a climber. More than 10,000 certainly. Yet I can remember clearly the battle with certain plants!

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105732977/gentle-bens-afternoon-delight

The bushes, trees and plant debris added greatly to my enjoyment of that route.

But there are others where the battle had me cursing: 

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105847439/rock-lobster

Yet others pose a decision - to tree or not to tree? That is the question.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105894981/energizer

Some people say the tree is off route. I argue that it’s such a gift it would be an insult to the tree not to stand on it as you go by.  I’ve done it both ways - it’s more fun to use the tree.

And then there’s this one:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/120223946/cactus-in-the-face

Without the cactus in the face, it’s just another pleasant limestone clipup. 

As mentioned, pruning is very “case” and location dependent.  How long it’s been there and how much it’s in the way are key factors.  I’ve had to “prune” a handful of “bush league” climbers in 35 years that seemed potted in place…but I have a soft spot for the green stuff.  Clip it and go.  If it lives, leaf it be. 

I like to let the rock decide for itself, unless my birthday is coming up. ;-)

All fun and games until you get to a crag in New Mexico and see some bald guy removing crack from a bush…

Great topic and a surprising dearth of rational answers. From this biologist’s perspective, the answer is certainly “it depends”, but not for the reasons listed above. The critical thing is to figure out what species the plant is. I would say the ecosystem matters to some degree, but an invasive species can and should be removed regardless of the ecosystem. A native species endemic to a certain aspect of a certain cliff should never be removed, regardless of ecosystem. Understanding the range of the plant in question can help; you should be more inclined to leave a native plant alone that is on the outskirts of its range.

If the plant in question is native and relatively common, there is no right or wrong answer. Now you get into the subjective, which this forum has covered at length. Will the removal of the plant significantly increase the quality of the climb? Does having the plant in the crack decrease the safety of the climb? Is this climb worth more than the life of this plant? Enjoy those value judgements. 

I would say that pruning a common plant is fine, while pruning a threatened or endangered plant is not. Apps like Seek can identify many plants by just taking a photo. It will also give some basic info and a range map to help inform your decision-making. Happy climbing!

Are micro climates a thing? Are relatively unique environments like a cliff side within the realm of rare or threatened locales? Can common plants be essential at certain densities to provide for the balance of an ecosystem?

Do birds of prey feast within an ecosystem supported by common plants, essential yet common?

Do lizards have a life support function that goes missing with the loss of mosses, grasses, bushes, flowers, leaves, dirt, lichens?

If you want other people to enjoy your route, clean it thoroughly and then hide the evidence

I hope the bush/tree in the middle of Dave's Deviation at Tahquitz is still there...

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I all seriousness, killing a bush that is older and tougher than you just to open yet another climb? You gotta be fucking kidding me? Is your respect of life that, disposable? Have some respect. Killing things for recreation isn't a good look.

Do you know how many things get killed to mine the metal and petroleum so we can go recreate? Ripping a non-endangered plant out is the very least damaging thing we’re doing here.

Many of the most classic cracks in Yosemite were full of dirt, munge, and bushes before the FA party gardened them out.  Clean that stuff out, enjoy the climbing, and rest assured that when we're all gone and humans aren't climbing any more, nature will again fill the cracks with dirt and bushes.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I all seriousness, killing a bush that is older and tougher than you just to open yet another climb? You gotta be fucking kidding me? Is your respect of life that, disposable? Have some respect. Killing things for recreation isn't a good look.

YEP!

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Do you know how many things get killed to mine the metal and petroleum so we can go recreate? Ripping a non-endangered plant out is the very least damaging thing we’re doing here.

Some people are saying climbers will even wipe their asses with trees.

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Do you know how many things get killed to mine the metal and petroleum so we can go recreate? Ripping a non-endangered plant out is the very least damaging thing we’re doing here.

To be fair those metals are going to be mined no matter what, and the reason CERTAINLY isn't to profit from making climbing gear. At least we're using the metals to make removable gear that doesn't damage the environment as we use it. Once it's made, the damage is stopped there.

Your car and technologies continue to use resources. Recycle your car and phone before you recycle your climbing gear friend!