Thoughts on removing bushes from cracks

After getting more into trad climbing recently, I've noticed a good bit of foliage in a lot of the cracks I've been climbing in. I've done a bit of gardening on some of them and found that this increases the quality of the climbs, often revealing new holds and good gear placements where the bush used to be. What are the communities thoughts on this? Should the bushes be left alone at the expense of a possibly higher quality route, or is it no big deal to remove them?

Are we talking a bit of lichen/moss and some small plants? Or full on bushes on the route that you have to climb around rather than being able to step/climb right over them? I climb at Tahquitz often so I encounter both regularly. 

If it's the former, garden away and clean it out. If it's the latter, I personally don't think it's cool to pull out a whole bush or chop anything down. Curious to hear what others think. 

Bushes covering cracks used to be a thing, believe it or not. These days most like those bushes removed or at least pruned to the surface.

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

Are we talking a bit of lichen/moss and some small plants? Or full on bushes on the route that you have to climb around rather than being able to step/climb right over them? I climb at Tahquitz often so I encounter both regularly. 

If it's the former, garden away and clean it out. If it's the latter, I personally don't think it's cool to pull out a whole bush or chop anything down. Curious to hear what others think. 

I'm talking about full bush. There was a multipitch sport route in particular where the 1st bolt of the second pitch was behind 2 man sized bushes growing out of a crack on the right, making it nearly impossible to climb. My shoes filled with dirt and twigs as my partner fought his way through them. The cimb would have been much more fun and safe without them.

I think it depends.

If the bushes are the kind that will grow back quickly I personally don’t have an issue with removing them.

If they are the desert variety and have a toe hold on life- leave them be.

Good question, I’m curious to know what others think. 

Popular routes tend to stay clean. If a route is growing "man sized bushes" I'd guess it's not very popular. Let the bushes stay. 

You want to remove the bush that's hiding the bolt so you can find a good gear placement?  

Todd Jenkins wrote:

You want to remove the bush that's hiding the bolt so you can find a good gear placement?  

No, that was just an example of a bush that detracted quality from a climb.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Bushes covering cracks used to be a thing, believe it or not. These days most like those bushes removed or at least pruned to the surface.

I’m just happy to be there.

Probably depends on where you are.  For the Sierra Nevada in CA, the plants growing in cracks on cliffs are the same as the common ones on the ground, they're not some sort of "cliff only" species from Venezuela.  I say remove them if it's a big enough improvement to justify the effort, don't tell anyone about it, then everyone will be happy.  Many routes that are currently popular used to be full of plants and now they're not.  

Even the bushes.  Especially the bushes.

(side note: unless you're on marble cliffs in Fresno County, there is one endemic flower to that habitat, but flowers aren't the topic here.  If you're unsure, learn some local botany and mostly pay attention to flowers, not bushes)

This is hilarious... a few bolts and an anchor are an abomination but yeah, go ahead and scrub the sh*t out of the rock, trim or pull some bushes, it's all good.   "Trad" climbing    

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Bushes covering cracks used to be a thing, believe it or not. These days most like those bushes removed or at least pruned to the surface.

Call me old fashioned but I like a little bush covering the crack.

Mike J wrote:

Call me old fashioned but I like a little bush covering the crack.

Preach!

I can’t tell if we’re talking about plants anymore 

This article is worth reading about digging at Squamish:
https://gripped.com/articles/the-diggers/

This paragraph tugged at my heart when I first read the article.

One way or another, digging seems to be a means to an end of being part of and contributing to community. The end goal doesn’t always play out in a simple way. Spending many days working alone, Damien recalls “coming down from working alone all day for 10 hours and just being black with dirt and chafed and mosquito-bitten. Walking through the campground and all these people are having so much fun. It was hard because they had no idea what I had been doing… People would be talking about all the climbs they did that day and I couldn’t really interact. I felt like an outsider.”

Climbing, thrashing, and crawling your way thru and precariously around bushes and small trees adds quite a bit of character to some routes. I suppose it depends where you climb. I do most of my climbing in high desert environments and I kind of feel like that plant has gone thru a lot to survive and grow. But maybe if you live in a wet place where things grow like weeds, it wouldn't feel sacrilegious to at least give it a pruning. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

Yeah, um, high school called, they want their stupid jokes back.

Please, bless us with more from your well of infinite knowledge

I all seriousness, killing a bush that is older and tougher than you just to open yet another climb? You gotta be fucking kidding me? Is your respect of life that, disposable? Have some respect. Killing things for recreation isn't a good look.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I all seriousness, killing a bush that is older and tougher than you just to open yet another climb? You gotta be fucking kidding me? Is your respect of life that, disposable? Have some respect. Killing things for recreation isn't a good look.

A bush seems to lose a bit of value to me when it's away from all other bushes, up on a rock somewhere.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Is your respect of life that, disposable?

of a bush in a crack that would grow back in a two or three years if left alone? Absolutely. Not all of us live in the desert west.

Now to me, its opposite. That lonely bush, by dint of its location, might otherwise live to be hundreds of years old, far older than its cousins down below.

Anyway, I'm mainly planting the idea that some diminutive bush blocking your way could easily be 50, 100 years old. Think about killing something that is 100 years old, next time you break out the pruning saw. Maybe trim a branch, instead. Or (shuddder) tough it out through the bush, now how about that?