Filed hooks!

So in PTPP's book he talks about filing down his hooks to points like the image below, which is easy with a vice and a standard metal file.  I filed a BD Grappling hook and took it out aid-bouldering it was a total game-changer! I was able to easily and stably hang off a bunch of edges that I had never been able to touch before, including edges that sloped to the left or right instead of being level. It's hard to overstate how much this mod helps. I think it is a combination of factors:

1) As PTPP says, the hook "bites" more into any edge

2) The hook does not walk when you are moving on it or doing side-to-side testing from down low

3) The pointed tip can catch on very small divets

4) The side edges of the hook can hold on where the edge you're placing it on slopes left or right

So after that session I've been tempted to file all my hooks, but I wanted to ask if there are hooks that shouldn't be filed down. For example, on a BD Talon there are two of the three hooks that are already tapered to a squared off point. I think maybe these are specialized for bathook placements, and it seems like further filing on these hooks might accelerate the degradation of bathook holes. So I'm planning on leaving those alone, but basically planning on filing all my other hooks. Are there any reasons not to or any hooks that are better off with the factory point?

For those of you who haven't tried this, put your computer down, go file a hook and go bouldering and get ready to have your mind blown. Killer tip from PTPP

Is this a free book?

Good "points" Jack ;)  The tradeoff to a pointed hook is the extreme psi exerted upon the rock at the point of contact. There are times when you may desire a wider contact area to reduce the psi at the point of contact. Such as, with soft or friable rock, delicate edges/flakes, and crystals. 

No, it is huge paperback, not an e-book, available on Amazon or I think maybe you can get it direct from the co-author, Pete Zabrok, who is sometimes active on these forums

John Clark wrote:

Is this a free book?

Quite the contrary, it is the most expensive climbing book I have ever purchased. It is also the most exhaustive, however. I have purchased every how to big wall climb resource out there and have good things to say about all of them, but Pete's is without a doubt the most comprehensive, and by a rather significant margin.

Buy it direct from Pete though.

John Clark wrote:

Is this a free book?

Get it here

Filed hooks are great but I wouldn't file all of them.  Normally on any pitch where I expect to do much hooking I will carry an assortment because you never know what might feel the best.  I normally carry 2 grappling hook sizes (1 flat and 1 point), 2 cliffhangers (1 flat and 1 point), 1 talon, 1 Leeper flat and 1 Leeper pointed and a big fish hook and 1 big pika.  Since I have never tried to leave one as pro (I know I'm light duty) you can only use one at a time anyway. 

Thanks for your kind words, all. 

Hooking seems spooky at first, but it's a fundamental technique you have to learn. Hooks can provide pro when nothing else is available - think Gorilla tape and Yates Screamer.  When soloing, it's even easier to use hooks for pro - no Gorilla tape is required. You add a short inverted Klemheist to your hook plus Screamer rig. No need for the Klemheist to be long here - heh heh. 

I only file my Grappling and Cliffhangers as Jack describes in his excellent diagram above. Yup, they sure do bite! 

The most important thing is to not take off too much steel when you file! For instance, to me it looks like the hook in Darin's photo above might have been overfiled? The point of the hook looks like it is farther back, hence farther into the curve, than where it started? Think about the angle of attack of hook on rock, and why it is bad to file too much off. So file exactly as per Jack's diagram above. 

Another mistake I see with hooks all the time is a really crappy job on the sling:

• Keep the sling as SHORT as possible so as not to sacrifice precious height. Only long enough to fit in your lead carabiner and a small amount of wiggle room
• Make sure when you weight the sling, the sling is pulled towards the rock, not away from the rock
• Tie the sling in a Euro death knot, not a water knot, and secure the ends with duct tape so it doesn't untie
• Colour code your slings, and use the thickest webbing you can fit through the holes

Lots more tips, photos and diagrams in our book HOOKING UP, written with Fabio Elli. Especially on slinging hooks. And more importantly, how to CLIMB on hooks. 

Cheers, eh?

PtPP aka Dr. Piton

 Unless you know something about steel tempering/retempering, it is very easy to kill the temper on the point if you use power tools. If it goes soft, you will have a "squishy" point that won’t last. 

Spend the money and get a good large Mill Bastard file and do the work by hand. You will also get the feeling you are "sharpening your big wall weapons" as a bonus. 

I use a fishing fish hook file. 

I should have specified file by hand. 

Darin Berdinka wrote:

Go make yourself a Hawk from a regular skyhook.  Like a mini-filed-grappling hook.  BITD was the go to.

Making a Hawk (or Hawks) is actually on my to do list for today.  I finally stumbled across some basic directions for making them the other day.  Had been looking for info and photos but wasn't able to turn up much.  Nice to see a picture so Ill have something to compare with after my attempt.  I have a feeling mine won't have as much material removed from the tip, I read to remove 1cm.  Will have to see how it turns out and possibly try another with a little bit more removed.

Hey Brian,

I don't know where you read to remove 1 cm, but if you do, your hook is buggered. The photo above is probably also a buggered hook.

If you want to make pointed hooks correctly, read the instructions in this post starting at the top.

Cheers, eh?

P.S. There might be another book you haven't yet read that tells you how to do this [HINT]

Here's mine compared to the original grappling hook. Did it w/ a file. A favorite piece of kit.

Peter Zabrok wrote:

Hey Brian,

I don't know where you read to remove 1 cm, but if you do, your hook is buggered. The photo above is probably also a buggered hook.

If you want to make pointed hooks correctly, read the instructions in this post starting at the top.

Cheers, eh?

P.S. There might be another book you haven't yet read that tells you how to do this [HINT]

You remove 1cm of length from the tip of the hook to adjust the angle at which the tip meets the rock.  I’m really surprised that you’re not familiar with using a hook modified in this way.  Not expecting it to be a Jack of all trades hook by any means but I’ve seen them mentioned by a number of reputable aid climbers as a worthwhile hook to have in ones quiver.  

The Cliffhangers have a pretty dramatic downward angle (especially the older ones) that differs from the flatter relative angle of the Grappling Hook.  So I’m thinking it may end up making it behave more like a mini Grappling Hook.  Variety is the spice of life (plus I bought a box of 8 military surplus Cliffhanger style hooks for the purpose of experimenting).  Have you ever used one?

Edit: I already correctly made a standard filed hook (still want to get a copy of the book though).  There are 4+ unadulterated hooks remaining so Im looking forward to making a “Hawk” or two.  Hooks always freak me out so if any of these feel even slightly more secure in certain placements I’ll be thrilled. 

Andy Wiesner wrote:

Here's mine compared to the original grappling hook. Did it w/ a file. A favorite piece of kit.

Nice filing job on the point, but holy frig, dude - the sling on your hook is WAAAAAY too long!  You are losing many inches of height on every placement!  Shorten up on your hook slings. It is one of the most common and easily-fixed errors I see on hooks. 

Standard hooks are just fine for 99% of the routes you’ll do. The only addition I would make is to make sure you have a big 4” one.
I’ve gotten up my last couple dozen El Cap routes with hooks that are no more special than anything you can buy in the store. 

I agree with Jack, and disagree with Mark.  

However, you can't argue with success, so I guess both filed and unfiled hooks work! 

Mark Hudon wrote:

Standard hooks are just fine for 99% of the routes you’ll do. The only addition I would make is to make sure you have a big 4” one.
I’ve gotten up my last couple dozen El Cap routes with hooks that are no more special than anything you can buy in the store. 

The big 4" hook advice was spot on. I put a big Pika on a short cheater stick to hook a ledge to bypass a blown-out bathook hole this past weekend (where there were literally no other placements even with a 6'1" guy in the top-steps) . 

Let's bear in mind that Mr. Hudon has sent El Cap in a swami and sent the Phoenix on stoppers. If that's your resume, then sure, yeah, don't worry about filing your hooks. It's sort of like, you know, Charles Albert doesn't need climbing shoes, but the rest of us...

I'm gonna read between the lines and say that the implied advice here is not to focus too much on micro details of gear at the expense of what actually matters on big routes like knowledge, skills, ability, experience, having the right gear in general, attitude, stubbornness, good partners, preparedness, etc., etc.

Peter Zabrok wrote:

I agree with Jack, and disagree with Mark.  

If you think that I'm going to find a way to mention this quote at every climber campfire session I'm at for the rest of my life, then you're right haha

Hahaha!! OK, but every time you mention it, you owe me a beer!!  See you at the El Cap Bridge this fall season?  

Yes, sharp hooks bite like crazy, making difficult hook placements feel secure and impossibly tiny hook placements actually work.