Pilot program will require permits for Yosemite bigwalls

 I just received this press release emailed from the park service: 

Yosemite National Park to Implement a Pilot Overnight Climbing Permit System 

Beginning on Friday, May 21, 2021 

Yosemite National Park – All visitors planning to overnight on any rock climbing routes in Yosemite National Park will be required to obtain an overnight wilderness climbing permit beginning on May 21, 2021. This pilot program is being implemented to better understand how park visitors use Yosemite’s big walls and to help improve climbing wilderness ethics and reduce negative human impacts associated with overnight big wall use. 

Overnight climbing permits will be available beginning at 8 a.m. on May 14, 2021. For the duration of the pilot program, these permits will be free. Please visit yosemite.org/climbingpermits/ to learn more.  

For more detailed information on climbing in Yosemite National Park, please visit: nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/…;

This program will be a 2-year pilot.   

For further information on Yosemite National Park, please visit nps.gov/yose.   

Fuck.  Pardon my language, but, just, Fuck. 

4 days ahead??? What if one is in Camp 4 on a 2 week trip playing the weather? This sucks. 

I think lead belay certs by the rangers before climbing is allowed would be a better deterrent to climbing and also increase safety or whatever.

Posted in the big wall forum: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/120667877/yosemite-now-requires-big-wall-wilderness-permits

"To better understand"

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

Clomp clomp go the jackboots.

Alex Stypwrote:

Fuck.  Pardon my language, but, just, Fuck. 

4 days ahead??? What if one is in Camp 4 on a 2 week trip playing the weather? This sucks. 

I think lead belay certs by the rangers before climbing is allowed would be a better deterrent to climbing and also increase safety or whatever.

"During this pilot, wilderness permits for climbers will be free and there will be no quotas or limits on the number of permits available." I think people should be able to manage.

I would imagine if they actually require permits in the future, it won't be you have to go on x day. It will be here is a 14 day window, climb somewhere within it. This seems far more like a measure of traffic than a new rule to crush rock climbers. 

My objection is that you have to know 4 days in advance when/what/if you are going up and also pick up a permit during business hours prior to going. For a lot of people travelling, or that have jobs, this is a mandatory addition of a day to the climb, and a day off of their trip.

 I was in the valley for ~9 days last time, with spotty weather. We would not have been able to play the weather and get out on our single overnight climb that trip during the 3 positive days that materialized, with this permit process. 

Trevor, your idea that they will scale it back is logical but not at all to be assumed as what NPS is thinking or will do. They haven't forecasted it and if their goal was do that they might have done it in this pilot, no? If their objective was purely a survey/analysis of traffic, they could ask us to simply check in rather than submit an application for approval to climb. Or just count the lights on the wall every night at 9pm, that seems pretty low cost.

I'd rather we need a permit for crapping on the wall. No permit no pooping. 

The only logical outcome:

https://youtu.be/2cis-fnK5Zo

This blows. All NPS permits blow. I don't even so much mind having to get them, it's that they insist you show up at their office during business hours. And this time, four days in advance.

The park rangers need to look me in the eye and make sure I'm wearing some dead bird gear? If I'm not personally in the park 4 days before I want to climb, I'll have forgotten how to belay? 

I've already been faced with the question of driving an extra 100 miles to pick up a permit or dodging rangers, and dodging rangers is more in keeping with my understanding of the Park system than wasting time and gas in a car. This is the internet age, forms can be filled out anywhere you have reception. They are intentionally adding useless inconvenience. If they want to cap numbers, just say that.

Edit: I misread; just submit 4 days before climbing. I still don't like it, but less awful.

Seems to be there is zero wy of enforcing this system. What would happen if everyone just ignored it?

Ryan Never climbs wrote:

They just hang out at the Bottom of the East ledges And issue tickets...

They could not determine if you stayed overnight. "I was just praticing carrying all my stuff on the descent"

Alex Stypwrote:

Trevor, your idea that they will scale it back is logical but not at all to be assumed as what NPS is thinking or will do. They haven't forecasted it and if their goal was do that they might have done it in this pilot, no? If their objective was purely a survey/analysis of traffic, they could ask us to simply check in rather than submit an application for approval to climb. Or just count the lights on the wall every night at 9pm, that seems pretty low cost.

It kinda sounds like the application for the permit might be online as the top of the website says form available May 14th. Then you pick the permit up in person. I don't really see how this is that different from a national park having operating hours.

 I suppose the comical option is a valley hobo operation that submits the application before hand for you and there is an entire underground permitting system.

I think your joking about headlamps but the poor ranger that keeps track of who turned the lights out for the night and who is taking a pee would actually be pretty hard.

Simple solution if you decide it is impractical to comply.

"Oh, we were planning a NIAD (or other Wall IAD) and were just too slow, dropped gear, or..."

Cory Bwrote:

They could not determine if you stayed overnight. "I was just praticing carrying all my stuff on the descent"

I assume they would still ticket you if you're carrying a haul bag with bivy gear in it and don't have a permit. That's been standard practice for people they catch hiking with backpacking gear and no permit.

thanks, alex

Optimistic minds may think that this is to determine the economic feasibility of Café Vertical... please exit through the gift shop. 

Originally There was a voluntary/pilot program  for the white Mt national forest parking fee , It was $3, no problem If you didnt pay,  then they started threatening fines. Now it is $5 to park. It is a slippery  slope.

Zach Daviswrote:

Optimistic minds may think that this is to determine the economic feasibility of Café Vertical... please exit through the gift shop. 

I want a taco truck on every summit 

They did this last year too... 

Something good about being an "old fart" - experiencing 2 months climbing/camping in Camp 4 in 1975!

One of the reasons Yosemite is popular is stable California weather, so dealing with weather is less problematic than other areas.  On almost all my trips there I had very few days impacted by weather.

The exception was May 2010.  There were storm cycles every 5-6 days which had rain/snow in the valley and snow on the rim, but with nice weather in between.  However, it took a couple of days for the ice to stop falling from the top of El Capitan, etc., so there were only 3 days to complete a climb. The only good thing was it was the first time I saw the Valley like the pictures Ansel Adams took.

Disregarding the permits is a BAD idea and will only lead to more restrictive regulations.  Better that the majority of climbers are seen complying with the rule and respecting the resource.

The government shuts down many climbing areas due to raptors nesting.  Nothing to stop them from shutting down climbing completely... 

This is horseshit 

But I mean really what are they gonna do?
hsve rangers rapping in to check permits at pitch 23?
 

It's beyond rare for the government to initiate a program like this and, in the future, shrink it or make it go away. Rather, their tendency is to do the opposite. That's just the way these things usually work out.