Fix and follow?
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Quick plug for the kong gigi if you're getting tired belaying your second up. |
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In a 3 one time this system works well is if the team is unbalanced. The weaker gets twice as long to do a pitch and doesn't feel he is getting in the way or slowing the team. |
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for those who already practice this, what is a good way to go about tying back-up knots? |
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IJMayer wrote: for those who already practice this, what is a good way to go about tying back-up knots? If I hang anything on the end to haul up later I'll just call that a back up knot. I'm not going to bother tying back up knots along the rope as I climb. Seems on the order of an entire belay anchor failing that both PCDs would fail at the same time so it seems more a psychological reassurance then an appreciable reduction in risk to tie knots as you go. I haven't done this yet though but I believe most don't tie knots. |
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IJMayer wrote: for those who already practice this, what is a good way to go about tying back-up knots? Generally no knots. Two PCDs provides the redundancy. Knots get stuck, as you note. |
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IJMayer wrote: for those who already practice this, what is a good way to go about tying back-up knots? Yes, no back up knots. I'd say if you feel the need to use backup knots, I'd work on getting more comfortable with the system on single pitch fixed line top roping. |
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I resisted converting to this system for the last couple years, but finally tried it out while doing some bigwall climbing last fall. Bottom line it works really well if you are dialed, definitely practice TR-soling a bunch before you try it on a multi-pitch. If you combine this with foot hauling a small pack with a 5mm tag, your experience of multi-pitch climbing becomes rather civilized. Kudos to Mikey and whoever else figured this out and put it into practice. |
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For pitches that wander or, say, turn a sharp roof corner where the fixed line would rub over, do you end up redirecting the line somehow, or is the point that this would be generally only used on clean, hard, steep, straight routes? |
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Sprinkle McSparklecams wrote: For pitches that wander or, say, turn a sharp roof corner where the fixed line would rub over, do you end up redirecting the line somehow, or is the point that this would be generally only used on clean, hard, steep, straight routes? It depends on what your comfortable with really, ie. how hard the climbing is relative to your max grade. If your likely to fall on the pitches and you are concerned about getting back on the rock, then maybe belay for that pitch then go back F&F for the next pitch. I have never redirected the rope for this method when climbing on a multipitch, I do use rope protectors and redirects to prevent this if I am working on a pitch with a static rope where I expect to fall a lot. |
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If your follower does want the ability to work a section of the pitch, instead of directly fixing the rope, you can pullup some extra rope (say 5-10 meters), then load it into a grigri/dmm-piviot and tie it off with an overhand or munter mule. (I guess an ATC would work as well, just harder to release under load), then if they want to be lowered to retry a section you can just undo the tie-off knot and lower them the necessary amount. |
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For those ready to take things another step further when a tag line would otherwise be unnecessary (i.e. not need for rappelling) and covering lots of ground: |
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Kerwin's beta about "fixing" the rope with a gri-gri is key. I've done this on sections where there is a short down climb. Once my partner gets to that section I can give them slack if need be. |
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I've not tried the following, but it would seem reasonable for a party of three. On the harder pitches use fix and follow with the third waiting until the second reaches the upper stance. Then releasing the second's rope with the bags on the end. Leader and second then pull bags up real quick, while third is following. Then the leader sets off once more. Note the third's rope is being towed by the second, not the leader and the leader doesn't wait for the third to arrive. |
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Mikey Schaefer wrote: Kerwin's beta about "fixing" the rope with a gri-gri is key. I've done this on sections where there is a short down climb. Once my partner gets to that section I can give them slack if need be. It seems like you could also deal with a sharp edge as the leader by using an additional progress capture device on the piece of gear before the sharp edge. Or perhaps just belaying the follower as usual if the edge is that scary. |
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I've been preaching this here for a few years since seeing it detailed in Climbing and trying it out. It's a great way to allow the leader to haul up a small pack so neither climber has to wear anything on their back. It can allow the leader to eat, bundle up in a jacket, take photos, or whatever they want while the follower follows. |
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Brie Abram wrote: An added bonus is it gives a legit reason for climbers to build anchors independent of the rope that you can spout at everyone who says "just use the rope". Why couldn't (or shouldn't) you use the rope for an anchor in this case? |
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JaredG wrote: Refer to the Nugget Climbing podcast episode where Mikey details this system..When the follower reaches the belay, a microtraxion is placed upside-down on the trailing rope so the belayer can pull up slack as needed to feed rope to the leader. One of the main advantages being that you wouldn't have to pull the whole rope and stack it before each pitch, but this means you need the leader's end of the rope to be free of the anchor. Thanks for the beta Mikey and all, I'm excited to use this system my next multipitch. |
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Yeah, there are a few different reasons related to the follower not being tied into her end of the rope that's dangling below. There are workarounds, but it's quicker and less contrived to build an independent anchor. |
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David Coley wrote: I've not tried the following, but it would seem reasonable for a party of three. On the harder pitches use fix and follow with the third waiting until the second reaches the upper stance. Then releasing the second's rope with the bags on the end. Leader and second then pull bags up real quick, while third is following. Then the leader sets off once more. Note the third's rope is being towed by the second, not the leader and the leader doesn't wait for the third to arrive. I have climbed a route before with party of three, with all pitches less then 35M, using one 80M rope. 1. Leader leads, then fixes rope, 2. first follower follows on TR-solo setup, 3. upon reaching the anchor follower pulls up half the rope and refixes. 4. Leader begins leading again, and second follower follows on TR-solo. If you have the system dialed it works pretty well. |
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The Nugget Climbing interview with Mikey Schaefer got me very excited about this fix-and-follow system. The stars finally lined up -- had a partner who is equally psyched about it and a couple of routes in the backcountry that are suitable for this practice. This weekend, we got to put the theory in practice. I really like it and have confidence in the system. The follower is always in action, either belaying or top rope soloing, but the leader has lots of free time. The part I like the most is no one has to stack the rope. That's really nice when climbing slabby or wandering routes, where there is lots of rope drag, and/or belays have no room for rope stack. |