Pack it out?

I'm just back from Maple Canyon, which has Forest service camping. They have a pack it out policy in place, and my trash ended up going all the way back to the car rental place near SLC airport.

But, Maple is adjacent to tiny little towns. So is City of Rocks, Idaho, and COR has just instituted a pack it out policy this year.

The only guidance I've seen, both places, is just get your trash elsewhere, because we (whatever agency is involved) no longer have the money for expensive rural trash hauling.

If trash is dumped in "the first dumpster you see", this just shifts that expense to tiny little towns. I don't see that promoting good will and harmony down the road, for climbers as a user group, especially someplace like Maple, where the town's aren't heavily used by climbers, unlike City, where Almo is mostly businesses catering to the people visiting COR. It's still a big burden for those small businesses, or Idaho Parks and Rec.

What are your opinions, and how has this worked out for your areas? Parking, trash, sewage, are impacts we will all have to consider, going forward, and I'd prefer climbers are viewed as leadership in this, not the problem. 

Best, Helen

It seems pretty simple. Don't leave your trash in wild places, put it in trash cans or dumpsters. Are you concerned about a few extra bags of trash burdening municipalities? Seems minor to me.

Edit: I think it's wrong to put your trash in a private residence's trash can, or an individual business' trash can/dumpster. But I have no qualms leaving a trash bag in a shopping center's trash can or dumpster. I'm talking individual bag of trash, not dumping a sofa or other bulk trash. But I can't imagine the city, as a whole, is "burdened" by a little bit of visitor's trash.

For now, there are still dumpsters and recyling at the bunkhouse near the CoR visitor center available for public use. 

The best place to dump garbage is a truck stop, the best place to take a dump is McDonalds , best greasy spoon is the One Man Band diner, TacoTime running a close second.

Related. What do you all do with your used wag bags? I always just toss them in the first trash can I find, but I feel kinda bad about it every time.

FrankPS wrote: It seems pretty simple. Don't leave your trash in wild places, put it in trash cans or dumpsters. Are you concerned about a few extra bags of trash burdening municipalities? Seems minor to me.

Edit: I think it's wrong to put your trash in a private residence's trash can, or an individual business' trash can/dumpster. But I have no qualms leaving a trash bag in a shopping center's trash can or dumpster. I'm talking individual bag of trash, not dumping a sofa or other bulk trash. But I can't imagine the city, as a whole, is "burdened" by a little bit of visitor's trash.

Frank dear, googlating Almo Idaho (unincorporated, by the way) population will net you 153, and that the population density is a charming "1 people per square mile". The "shopping center" would be Tracy's general store (do grab some cookies, they're awesome), or I suppose Rock City pizza. :-)

The visitors center is, I believe, run by the Idaho parks department. Not exactly overfunded...

City was meant as an example, Maple is similar, I'm sure there are other places we love that have climbers as the vast majority of the "population", at any time in season.

Most places I've been to are getting pretty good at established trails and keeping trash picked up. This just seems like the next direction we will have to consider, where waste (of all sorts) should be disposed, and who should pay for that.

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

Frank dear, googlating Almo Idaho (unincorporated, by the way) population will net you 153, and that the population density is a charming "1 people per square mile". The "shopping center" would be Tracy's general store (do grab some cookies, they're awesome), or I suppose Rock City pizza. :-)

The visitors center is, I believe, run by the Idaho parks department. Not exactly overfunded...

City was meant as an example, Maple is similar, I'm sure there are other places we love that have climbers as the vast majority of the "population", at any time in season.

Most places I've been to are getting pretty good at established trails and keeping trash picked up. This just seems like the next direction we will have to consider, where waste (of all sorts) should be disposed, and who should pay for that.

Best, Helen

I think the towns welcome tourist dollars, even if there is some extra trash. This is not a crisis. Or an impending one. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry.

You must be really bored to dream this problem up.

I vote we increase funding for our land management agencies so they can afford to put in some garbage cans at the trail head.  A man can dream, right?  

Yes I'm salty after making use of Canada's awesome, well funded parks

JFC do we need someone to hand us tp to wipe with too? 

Eric Roe wrote: I vote we increase funding for our land management agencies so they can afford to put in some garbage cans at the trail head.  A man can dream, right?  

Yes I'm salty after making use of Canada's awesome, well funded parks

Fucking socialist. 

FrankPS wrote:

I think the towns welcome tourist dollars, even if there is some extra trash. This is not a crisis. Or an impending one. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry.

You must be really bored to dream this problem up.

The issue OLH brought up is not as simple as you think. It is an issue. Trash and misuse is an issue that can cause trails and outdoor rec areas to be closed (there are other larger issues that can arise as well). Also, trash doesn’t just disappear. The city where I live, which is rural and has tourism being the number 1 economic industry, is 5 years out from having its landfill full, all else equal. Your dismissal of this as an issue shows a lack of knowledge when it comes to the Cost/benefit of a tourism economy, what most people consider civic services, and human impact on lands. 

Will Black Rock Campground retain their dumpster?  The extra $5 day use fee won't seem like so much of a ripoff when you pay to take a shower there if you can drop your garb and recycling off.

Luke Roberts wrote:

The issue OLH brought up is not as simple as you think. It is an issue. Trash and misuse is an issue that can cause trails and outdoor rec areas to be closed (there are other larger issues that can arise as well). Also, trash doesn’t just disappear. The city where I live, which is rural and has tourism being the number 1 economic industry, is 5 years out from having its landfill full, all else equal. Your dismissal of this as an issue shows a lack of knowledge when it comes to the Cost/benefit of a tourism economy, what most people consider civic services, and human impact on lands. 

As far as I could tell, the issue posted by the OP was not trash on the trail or misuse of the trails, but disposing of trash in town. Two separate issues. You have conflated the two issues.

Edit: I misread your comments, Luke.  I don't think you were conflating two issues. But I still don't think trash in towns, from climbers, is a problem.

Old lady H wrote:

Frank dear, googlating Almo Idaho (unincorporated, by the way) population will net you 153, and that the population density is a charming "1 people per square mile". The "shopping center" would be Tracy's general store (do grab some cookies, they're awesome), or I suppose Rock City pizza. :-)

The visitors center is, I believe, run by the Idaho parks department. Not exactly overfunded...

City was meant as an example, Maple is similar, I'm sure there are other places we love that have climbers as the vast majority of the "population", at any time in season.

Most places I've been to are getting pretty good at established trails and keeping trash picked up. This just seems like the next direction we will have to consider, where waste (of all sorts) should be disposed, and who should pay for that.

Best, Helen

Well, if I go buy some cookies, I assume I'm allowed to use their bathroom (sewer and water), right? I guess I don't see a WAG bag being any different.

FrankPS wrote:

As far as I could tell, the issue posted by the OP was not trash on the trail or misuse of the trails, but disposing of trash in town. Two separate issues. You have conflated the two issues.

That's not what Luke said. He was positing that small rural communities in or near recreational areas can succeed in restricting or eliminating access if their trash problem *in town*  becomes unsustainable from visitors leaving their garbage at the nearest dumpster. It's not two separate issues.

Marc801 C wrote:

That's not what Luke said. He was positing that small rural communities in or near recreational areas can succeed in restricting or eliminating access if their trash problem *in town*  becomes unsustainable from visitors leaving their garbage at the nearest dumpster. It's not two separate issues.

Do you know of anywhere access to the outdoors has been restricted or eliminated because trash in town has been a problem? I doubt it.

This wasn't meant to be antagonistic, guys. I'm 62, which means I remember when the "ethic" was to dump trash in the nearest gully, and pitch bottles out car windows. Sheesh.

What I've seen happen over and over? Good things. A lot of good things, actually. As user groups started taking care of areas (not just climbers), those areas became much more sustainable.

I simply went on a trip, to an area with a very rural population. Norbest turkeys is headquartered in the area adjacent to Maple. The little towns are not ​tourist towns, they are typical rural crossroads, at best. City of Rocks, on the other hand, is headquartered in Almo. The employees live there, the businesses benefit from the 80,000+ visitors.

Nonetheless, the trash service for the City has been eliminated from within ​the park. Insufficient funds being cited. I'm fine with carrying out my trash, all the way home, in fact. However, it is clear that the burden of disposal is largely shifted to town, however that works out.

At City, with climbing being so central? I expect this will easily work out. At a locale like Maple? I can see it easily becoming a (justified) source of resentment towards the outsiders. Us, Frank.

Yes, Frank, you are correct, there is no big crisis. It simply seems a logical next thing for climbers to think about, and make some proactive changes that everyone can live with.

Thanks for commenting, Frank, and offering counterpoint. Your posts are always thoughtful, and appreciated. Sure hope we'll meet some day, sir!

Best, Helen

Frank seems especially salty on this thread. 

Seems a bit hypocritical to despise taxes and vilify things like universal health care as socialist/bad, then expect a small municipality with little to no tax base to be responsible for disposing of your waste. Just sayin'.

B W wrote: Seems a bit hypocritical to despise taxes and vilify things like universal health care as socialist/bad, then expect a small municipality with little to no tax base to be responsible for disposing of your waste. Just sayin'.

City of Rocks is a national reserve and Castle Rocks is a state park. These are far from small municipalities. The garbage companies/local governments that would actually collect the garbage there would probably benefit from our tax money going to what it’s supposed to be going to- upkeep of our national lands. 

mediocre wrote:

City of Rocks is a national reserve and Castle Rocks is a state park. These are far from small municipalities. The garbage companies/local governments that would actually collect the garbage there would probably benefit from our tax money going to what it’s supposed to be going to- upkeep of our national lands. 

Instead we’re paying for rounds of golf and secret service for the biggest con-man to ever take office. 

Uh, the whole thread above is about dumping in the small cities outside of these reserves or parks. 

I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment, though!