Weird loading position when using DMM Rhino autolocking biners with a Grigri

In another thread I posted about the DMM Rhino biner getting into a weird position under load with a Grigri. The more I thought about it, the more I feel it’s something that deserves its own thread. This is not just a fluke, but something that has happened over and over to me. Here’s usually how it happens: my climber ask for take, I take up all the slack in the rope, and then jump up to take up any rope stretch and sit down on my Grigri. More than once I’d be hanging all my weight on the Grigri and look down to see this:

In the above picture, I have my full bodyweight hanging off that Grigri. It’s not exactly cross loading, but it’s not loading the biner in the most optimal way either. Obviously if I keep an eye on the biner this wouldn’t happen, but the same argument can be made about crossloading as well. What really piss me off is that the Rhino is supposedly designed to work with Grigris.

I have two Rhino biners, a Locksafe and a Quicklock, both autolocking biners. It seems that locking sleeves on the gate stick out too far and create a space/edge to catch on the belay loop. When there's no tension on the Grigri and biner (when taking in slack for example), the biner slide down the belay loop to where the top of the gate is. As soon as tension is applied, the gate catches on the belay loop and the biner gets stuck in that position. Initially I thought this was caused by the skinny belay loop on my Arc’Teryx harness, but when I switched to a Camp harness with a wider belay loop it still happens. I don’t have a screwlocking Rhino, but just looking at a picture of it, this may not be a problem with the screwlock since the locking sleeve on the screwlock seems to be slightly rounded.


This has only happened when the climber asks for a take, I haven’t seen it happen while catching a fall. It is entirely possible that the force of a fall can pull the locking sleeve off the belay loop and align the biner correctly, however, I personally don’t want to test that theory myself or with any my climbing partners. I have replaced both Rhino biners with something else, and relegated the Rhinos to ATC duty.

Curiously, there seem to be other (newer?) Rhino autolockers out with a more rounded locking sleeve, maybe DMM realized this problem and fixed it?

I think the gate should be facing left, and that would probably prevent the fabric catching on it. As bonus, also keeps the gate far from the brake hand and rope

Warriors wrote: If this is a recurrent problem for you, use a DMM belay master. This can happen with nearly any locker ime.

Yes, I have replaced both Rhino with biners similar to the Belay Master (with a plastic clip across the biner).

I use a BD Rocklock Magnetron, and there’s nothing for the belay loop to snag on since the locking mechanism is low profile. By tightly hitching my grigri tether where the rhino horn is on the DMM biner, it keeps the grigri in the large basket of the biner and prevents crossloading. Just an option for you to consider!

This is the answer to your problem. The bottom gate prevent the biner from rotating, and the horn and large sleeve prevents the Grigri from slipping out of ideal position

Anyone else just using a normal ass locker so they can get additional utility out of it? Never had it load like that before.

Noah R wrote: Anyone else just using a normal ass locker so they can get additional utility out of it? Never had it load like that before.

In the wild I only use a tube style device. Sporto or gym I'll use the grigri.

You also might try attaching your biner the other way (with the gate on the left) and see if it’s less likely to snag that way. Seems like your braking motion could be turning the device to the right, and if the spine is on the right the belay loop would have nothing to snag

Fran is correct. I use the Rhino. My gate always faces left, this type of cross loading has only happened once or twice in atypical circumstances.

I think when you "jump up" it's allowing the biner to float for that fraction of a second thus getting out of alignment.
Try just taking without jumping and see what happens.
Or you can get a biner with a belay bar.

Noah R wrote: Anyone else just using a normal ass locker so they can get additional utility out of it? Never had it load like that before.

I’ve seen both grigris and tubers crosslod on a normal pearbiner as well. Id say i see it regularly at the gym

Buck Rio wrote:

In the wild I only use a tube style device. Sporto or gym I'll use the grigri.

That's what I'm sayin, ATC for the win when it comes to "real" climbing ;)

You don't need a special biner for your belay device other than your choice of locking mechanism.

Cross loading is not a thing that has ever caused a belay to fail.

So I'm not looking for suggestions on what biners to use with a Grigri, I have a couple of biners with a plastic clip across the gate and very happy with them. I'm just trying to raise awareness of an issue with the Rhino autolockers for people who are thinking of buying one, especially since these biners are toted as designed for Grigris to prevent crossloading.

Congrats, you bought into some hype that you don't need.

News at 11.

Drew Nevius wrote: You also might try attaching your biner the other way (with the gate on the left) and see if it’s less likely to snag that way.

My biners are attached this way because I'm left-handed. But I'm willing to give this a try and see if it helps.

aikibujin wrote: My biners are attached this way because I'm left-handed. But I'm willing to give this a try and see if it helps.

That makes sense. Do you use left or right hand for the brake strand when using the grigri?

Drew Nevius wrote:

That makes sense. Do you use left or right hand for the brake strand when using the grigri?

I use my right hand for the brake strand with the Grigri. It's just easier and I've had plenty of practice. I also do certain things with my right hand (like writing and using a mouse) because that's how I was taught, so my right hand isn't totally useless. I throw a ball with my left hand, and I've always operated a locker with my left because it just feels more natural. Up till this point it has never been an issue, but it wouldn't take too much effort to get used to operate a locker with my right hand either. With a tube I can belay with either left or right hand, early in my climbing career a mentor gave me a very good reason to learn how to belay with both hands.

I also tie a figure-8 knot in the mirror image of a right-handed person. So I usually don't pre-tie the figure-8 for my partners because it drives them nuts re-threading mine.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: Congrats, you bought into some hype that you don't need.

News at 11.

Since when has "Need" got anything to do with it?

Buck Rio wrote:

Since when has "Need" got anything to do with it?

Precisely right, Buck.

As a former industry insider I assure you many, many products are made because people will buy them, not remotely because they need them to enjoy the outdoors.

But, as climbers we should seek to understand our strict safety needs to keep things simple for fast and light missions etc.

A belay biner that is purpose designed to resist "cross-loading" isn't one of those things we need and only takes advantage of irrational fears (and gear wankery impulses).

This has happened to me with every locker I’ve ever used with a Grigri.